s&box - vr

garry 04-Aug-21 07:56 AM

binding some VR stuff now

10

mainly aiming to get the head at the right location right now

then we can pass all the body/controller positions over the user command next

we're probably going to have to collaborate to come up with useful/premade systems

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:08 AM

And here I was considering un-fucking my climbing gamemode from the API updates I missed haha, cool!

garry 04-Aug-21 08:14 AM

got to re-work out how to use the quest with steam now

this wifi link stuff is junk right

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:14 AM

Afaik Air link is decent from what I've heard

But wired is more reliable for sure

Pred 04-Aug-21 08:16 AM

Only tried with Virtual Desktop, but with that you just either launch the game through the Virtual Desktop menu or launch Steam Vr

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:17 AM

And yeah I guess if you go the Virtual Desktop route that only does wireless but is a lot more configurable to make it reliable for your connection

garry 04-Aug-21 08:18 AM

can I make the quest stop knowing whether it's on my face

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:18 AM

I think tape over the sensor in the top center between lenses works temporarily

But over time it sorta "gets used to" that being the default state and goes into sleep mode anyway, unsure how long that takes though

Ryhon 04-Aug-21 08:21 AM

Air link is garbage, alvr is better but has some latency and virtual desktop is the best

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:21 AM

I'm a huge fan of how the Vive Focus 3's desktop streaming works because it just connects to Steam using an app on your PC and if your headset loses connection it doesn't shut everything down, just sorta pauses your headset view

garry

can I make the quest stop knowing whether it's on my face

Ryhon 04-Aug-21 08:21 AM

I think if you put something on the top piece it will think it's on

Like tape or whatever

idk how it works

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:22 AM

lmk when there's binding setups required, I can set up a lot of different shit

Ryhon 04-Aug-21 08:25 AM

The default strap keeps it on if it's laying on the top piece of the foam cover

garry

can I make the quest stop knowing whether it's on my face

litevex 04-Aug-21 08:26 AM

you can actually

theres an oculus developer tool

that lets you disable the accelometer or something

and it keeps the quest on

Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:26 AM

uh oh

i want to test my vr

in s&box

litevex 04-Aug-21 08:26 AM

this thing

Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:26 AM

btw. wifi connection thing is good

ogniK 04-Aug-21 08:27 AM

that pic looks like the side of an ass

Loxy

btw. wifi connection thing is good

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:27 AM

It's not universally good

Highly depends on your wifi setup

1

Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:27 AM

yeah

but if you have good router it's good (edited)

Pred 04-Aug-21 08:28 AM

With wifi6 and it set up to being the only device on the channel it's wonderful

Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:28 AM

^^ same as link

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:29 AM

I mean it's still a compressed image but I guess you get that with link too

Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:29 AM

yeah

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:29 AM

Kinda sucks how noticable that is if you swap to a natively running VR headset afterwards, but certainly passable if it's all you know

Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:30 AM

I mean, image looks very good on airlink, it's worse on VD

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:30 AM

VD lets you tweak the hell out of it, so I'm sure you can get it looking better there with a lot of trial and error

Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:31 AM

yeah

VD is using quest 2 hardware

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:31 AM

But Airlink will be the more straight forward approach that will "just work" for most

Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:31 AM

to gain some fps

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:31 AM

I'm still hoping VD gets Vive Focus 3 support soon

Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:32 AM

what's this?

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:32 AM

HTC's own streaming solution is capping the bitrate like crazy, which makes even running it at 2048x2048 per eye still look a little soft and compressed

Vive Focus 3 is HTC's standalone headset, but it's "for business" so they charge you out the ass for it

litevex 04-Aug-21 08:32 AM

wifi connection thing is good but it needs some setup

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 08:32 AM

Much nicer overall headset than the Quest 2 though

litevex 04-Aug-21 08:33 AM

you can have a sorta ok experience if your pc has a wifi card OR you have a wifi usb stick thing (like 10$) and use a wifi hotspot but it's sorta messy, has slight stutter and you have to connect several times until vd actually lets you in because of some weird bug. also absolutely unplayable with airlink for some reason (edited)

or you can buy a 50$ recommended router, hook it up to your pc, set the right vd settings and immediately have high resolution gameplay wirelessly with barely any latency that's if you use virtual desktop, not airlink. airlink suck (edited)

ShadowBrain

HTC's own streaming solution is capping the bitrate like crazy, which makes even running it at 2048x2048 per eye still look a little soft and compressed

Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:34 AM

that would be cool

anyway VD is using better streaming solution than airlink

I just have some issues with quality of image on VD

litevex 04-Aug-21 08:35 AM

vd is worth it right now even just for ssw (edited)

Loxy 04-Aug-21 08:35 AM

yeah

garry

can I make the quest stop knowing whether it's on my face

rako 04-Aug-21 08:53 AM

there's a native setting inside of your Quest/Quest software on PC

no need for tapes or dev tools

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:21 AM

we don't even need premade systems just some basic bindings that we can build off of would be an amazing start

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:21 AM

Premade systems would serve as examples of how to implement shit- it's not the priority but it's very nice to have

Afaik Garry is only working on the binding stuff right now, which will get pushed first, and premade systems come after

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:22 AM

true, i just meant like, don't let those premade systems hold you back from releasing the first version of bindings

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:22 AM

Yeah so that's already the plan

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:22 AM

epic

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:23 AM

He said the premade systems will likely be a collaborative effort, can't collaborate without pushing the base features first :p

garry 04-Aug-21 09:27 AM

VR.WorldScale or Vr.WorldScale

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:27 AM

Hmmmmmm VR is technically an acronym right

So full caps?

DEADMONSTOR 04-Aug-21 09:27 AM

Full caps pls

Carson 04-Aug-21 09:27 AM

I would think VR.WorldScale makes more sense

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:27 AM

Vr looks weird

garry 04-Aug-21 09:28 AM

does it

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/ee607f6d-9f95-4619-bfce-dd4e1b31ce02.png

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:28 AM

Yeah, it does, though "weird" is relative to your normal

DEADMONSTOR 04-Aug-21 09:28 AM

I guess the g_p helps there

garry 04-Aug-21 09:28 AM

I think the thing in c# is to drop to lowercase with acronyms (edited)

but

I think Vr would look weird in isolation

if it was like Game.Class.Vr.Blah it would be different

but 99% of the time it's gonna be Vr.Blah

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:29 AM

I mean you've got multiple people giving their view, do with it as you want I suppose :p

DEADMONSTOR 04-Aug-21 09:29 AM

Yeah I think it's because it's on it's own at ths start

Carson 04-Aug-21 09:29 AM

VirtualReality.WorldScale

garry 04-Aug-21 09:29 AM

let me ask you something

should we have WorldScale or just Scale which is just worldscale = 1 / Scale;

because I think it might be more intuitive to think of it as scaling the player than the world

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:30 AM

Can we... have both?

garry 04-Aug-21 09:31 AM

they're the same thing though

just inverse

Carson 04-Aug-21 09:31 AM

Hm, I do agree that it's more intuitive, but I'm not sure what the VR standard is

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:31 AM

Hmm yeah I think SteamVR's new worldscale slider is inverse

Though it confuses the fuck out of me

garry 04-Aug-21 09:31 AM

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/ab2a0228-ffa1-426a-84d7-e38ee9b3998e.png

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:31 AM

Lower numbers = bigger world feels off to me

garry 04-Aug-21 09:31 AM

I'm changing it

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:32 AM

Also Valve's plugin for Unity is just Using Valve.VR; and uses capitalized VR everywhere iirc

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:43 AM

Will vr be a whole different input api or could we potentially use the same code for vr and flat

garry 04-Aug-21 09:44 AM

it'll have to be different for the most part

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:44 AM

I feel like for VR you might want more descriptive names than just feature names button-name-wise but not sure

garry 04-Aug-21 09:44 AM

I do want games where you can use the mouse and keyboard instead of controllers tho

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:45 AM

So like seated VR?

garry 04-Aug-21 09:45 AM

depends if you have a standing desk

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:45 AM

Aka caveman Rift CV1 launch VR

Would also be able to use a gamepad

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:46 AM

Like input.righthandaim Ray that gets set based on the right hand in vr but is just the same as the default player aim in flat

Or something idk

MuffinTastic 04-Aug-21 09:46 AM

ever played quake 2 vr in kb/m mode? it's actually cool

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:47 AM

Am personally not a fan of seated VR without tracked hands but I'd agree that it should be an option, would also be used for racing games and such

walllable 04-Aug-21 09:48 AM

Euro Truck Sim VR in s&box...

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:48 AM

Those racing games folks are working on should be pretty easy to add VR support to

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:49 AM

how does vr networking work/how will it work

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:49 AM

Though it'd be fun to add a hand tracking input mode where you grip the wheel itself too

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:49 AM

im worried about motion sickness with occasional rubberbanding due to packet loss and stuff (edited)

garry

got to re-work out how to use the quest with steam now

no more pogchamp 04-Aug-21 09:50 AM

Use virtualdesktop

Oculus Link is trash

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:50 AM

I reckon S&Box would never be rated as a comfortable VR experience

garry 04-Aug-21 09:50 AM

alright first build coming

this is all the api so far

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/f62737e4-8662-4b6e-a338-07919ecc2cca.png

no more pogchamp 04-Aug-21 09:51 AM

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:51 AM

holy crap

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:51 AM

Nice!

no more pogchamp 04-Aug-21 09:51 AM

@SadlyItsBradley

garry 04-Aug-21 09:51 AM

I update the anchor autoamtically in PostCameraSetup

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/b4fd7c71-c247-4227-afe3-0c5ec5bf0cf6.png

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:52 AM

todays a good day to have a day off from work

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:52 AM

Oh so it'll "just work" right now

SadlyItsBradley 04-Aug-21 09:52 AM

garry 04-Aug-21 09:52 AM

yeah it'll be whereever the pawn is

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:52 AM

time to attach my vr camera to a football

and be kicked around

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:52 AM

So this first version won't even allow devs not to support VR right now?

1

Not that I mind

garry 04-Aug-21 09:53 AM

mouse and keyboard doesn't work right now in VR mode for some reason, so I'm gonna look into that now

no more pogchamp 04-Aug-21 09:53 AM

Could probably do some basic xbox controller mapping

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:53 AM

does it use steamvr input

garry 04-Aug-21 09:54 AM

I dunno

there's a bunch of really simple looking things to bind

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:54 AM

It will eventually I reckon, it's SteamVR's input binding system

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:54 AM

steamvrs input binding is amazing

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:54 AM

The "legacy" binding system is pretty shit, doesn't support all controller features

Like you'd probably lose access to skeletal hand tracking if you didn't use the steamVR input system

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:55 AM

temporarily expose the entire vr library

for fun :D

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:56 AM

Wtf does that even mean

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:56 AM

oh yeah i guess its all in unmanaged sections of code atm huh

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 09:56 AM

We're not going to be setting up bindings per app, the SteamVR input system doesn't even support bindings within an existing app

So we'll get an abstracted amount of access to SteamVR's input system

Daniel 04-Aug-21 09:57 AM

well yeah of course

im excited

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:00 AM

Updated- seems to just launch in a black screen on desktop

I remember the main menu not showing up in VR yet but I figured it'd still show on desktop

walllable 04-Aug-21 10:01 AM

does it still work right when not using VR?

garry 04-Aug-21 10:01 AM

can you paste any errors in logs/

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:01 AM

Oh even launching the game with SteamVR on but in flat mode gives me a black screen now

Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:02 AM

oh btw i'm sure its already known but the physgun halo is very broken in vr, only shows up in one eye (edited)

Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:02 AM

Give me a sec, I will also test

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:02 AM

Log.log

6.92 KB

Menu didn't compile?

garry 04-Aug-21 10:03 AM

I'd validate contents

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:03 AM

Validating

I launched the game right before this update

So idk what this'd do

Hmm 832 byte update?

Yeah looks like 1 file failed lemme retry

Yup runs now

Weird

Hmm I'm still in the center of the map looks like

Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:07 AM

it's working for me

just looking around

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:08 AM

To be fair I am using a custom gamemode so idk if there's something I gotta do

Noticed the render resolution is directly tied to the window resolution btw

Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:08 AM

yeah

what we should test?

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:09 AM

Yeah no, in sandbox too, I'm just at the center of the map

Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:09 AM

yeah

something is wrong

i guess

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:10 AM

also get a lot of this but it's possibly not relevant to the anchor not working

https://puu.sh/I1r9m/4e6331ef8a.png

Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:10 AM

which postcamerasetup is the anchor being set in?

Game.PostCameraSetup? (edited)

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:11 AM

Nice, if I manually set it in simulate it seems to work

Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:13 AM

can you see terrys beautiful body

Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:13 AM

join me daniel

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:14 AM

@garry you might need the option to swap SteamVR into seated/standing mode to change the actual local space of the anchor, though I guess we can all compensate for that once we get head position exposed

And no, I just see his shadow because locally terry's body gets turned off in my gamemode

Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:15 AM

set camera.viewer to null on your camera

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:15 AM

No I already fixed it by changing my player code

The near clip plane for VR needs to be tiny by default if possible

walllable 04-Aug-21 10:15 AM

I made an issue about that a couple days ago actually

https://github.com/Facepunch/sbox-issues/issues/549

Clipping plane set too far from camera in VR · Issue #549 · Facepun...

Describe the bug The clipping plane is set too far from the player's field of view in VR, causing players to be able to see inside of objects and past walls when it's a couple inche...

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:16 AM

It's currently like 20cm or something

I think I always set it to whatever Unity considers the minimum

Which is like 1cm

garry 04-Aug-21 10:17 AM

it is pretty huge right now

Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:17 AM

cant you set the znear?

garry 04-Aug-21 10:17 AM

yeah

Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:18 AM

yeah in camera.build or something

Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:19 AM

you lagged my vr

@Daniel

fu

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:19 AM

Hmm that's annoying I can't figure out how to change it without just making a custom camera (edited)

Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:19 AM

:D

Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:19 AM

sbox crashed

vr version

Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:19 AM

you should be able to set CameraSetup.zNear

garry 04-Aug-21 10:20 AM

override PostCameraSetup in base gamemode is easiest to override

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:21 AM

Why isn't this just a thing though https://puu.sh/I1rgl/c9b63bc967.png

garry 04-Aug-21 10:22 AM

cameras are more like CameraControllers than cameras

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:23 AM

I'm just a Unity guy I have no clue what makes more sense in proper C# world

But that sounds like overcomplicating it

garry 04-Aug-21 10:23 AM

what you're describing makes perfect sense

I think the thing I was trying to avoid when I made it like this was having multiple things changing the camera

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:24 AM

I noticed ZNear is a thing inside the FirstPersonCamera class, so I'd be able to make a custom Camera class and add it there

But it could also just be exposed?

garry 04-Aug-21 10:24 AM

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/51590539-081b-4427-b3a6-a925acf5dc10.png

doing this in your game is probably easiest

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:25 AM

Ah and that's in inches right because source 2

garry 04-Aug-21 10:25 AM

I guess yeah

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:25 AM

Cool thanks, should work

Ha

I can see the cubemap in his eyes

https://puu.sh/I1rjR/59aa1ffc78.mp4

Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:27 AM

man was not meant to get this close to terry

garry 04-Aug-21 10:27 AM

haha

DEADMONSTOR 04-Aug-21 10:28 AM

that's amazing

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:29 AM

Gonna be tricky once we get head position data though

Do we change the pawn to just follow the head relative to the center of your room? And then also move the center of your room with your pawn if you do user input?

Shit's gonna explode in complexity setup-wise

garry 04-Aug-21 10:30 AM

in alyx they have the player entity and then another entity on top of that which is VR model iirc

Pred 04-Aug-21 10:30 AM

seeing him running around is pretty cool. VR + Non-vr gamemodes are gonna be awesome

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:30 AM

Hmm and the VR entity is offset and decides standing height and collisions I guess

bakscratch 04-Aug-21 10:31 AM

Black & White vibes

Ryhon 04-Aug-21 10:32 AM

what the dog doin

garry 04-Aug-21 10:33 AM

isn't standing height gonna just be real world height x world scale

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:34 AM

Well sort of, I just kinda meant Z position I guess which could go up/down if you physically move over objects with your head

garry 04-Aug-21 10:35 AM

in other VR games do they artificially change that distance from the floor to the head, without scaling the rest of the world

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:36 AM

We might be thinking of different things here, my only experience is from my own games where the player is a physics object held up by a raycast that keeps the physical floor level with the ingame floor

Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:36 AM

does resolution works good?

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:36 AM

By just moving the anchor

Resolution doesn't work right as it uses the window's render res instead of the SteamVR-set render scale

Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:36 AM

ah

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:36 AM

But that's a more technical problem to figure out later

Loxy 04-Aug-21 10:37 AM

yeah

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:39 AM

In Climbey for example, player is a rotation locked rigidbody, there's colliders attached to the head and body that push the player out of walls if you try walking through them and it uses your head position to determine if you're standing on a surface or not with a raycast down from the neck, that applies delta forces to keep the floor level with whatever surface you're standing on

Other than that it's just physics acting on shit, which I'm sure is way different from how HLA does it

But I've struggled figuring out how to do shit like player positioning in VR based on head offset

In other games like the Receiver 1 VR port I did

It works really terribly in that, since I'm forcing the PlayerController into the right X/Y position based on the head's local position, which causes glitchy physics sometimes with walking into walls

That shit was not made to be position-set

Which I'm sure is part of the reason HLA just fades to orange when you shove your face into things

The push-back effect can be sickening in Climbey but people generally don't really even attempt it, so the colliders just act to stop them when launched against a surface for the most part

Daniel 04-Aug-21 10:48 AM

I wanna play some alyx now

no more pogchamp 04-Aug-21 10:52 AM

Lets gooo

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 10:55 AM

I do wonder if a hybrid system is possible that has both the pawn acting on the VR rig as well as the VR rig affecting the pawn, with both being able to act simultaneously

Would need a total of both movement vectors and add them up I guess

garry 04-Aug-21 12:47 PM

blargh

tried to get hand tracking working but couldn't get there]

walllable 04-Aug-21 12:54 PM

Aw damn

Daniel 04-Aug-21 01:01 PM

dont stop garry

i know you can do it

garry

tried to get hand tracking working but couldn't get there]

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:03 PM

Need SteamVR input bindings set up, uses a "pose" type which has position, rotation and velocity data iirc

No idea why they call it a pose but that's what they call it in Unity and the bindings screen

Is also how you get headset position/rotation data

Headset is just the device at index 0 in the device list

garry 04-Aug-21 01:16 PM

Yeah inset up bindings but it was retuning a struct with devixenotfound set

garry

in other VR games do they artificially change that distance from the floor to the head, without scaling the rest of the world

BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 01:30 PM

some do, some dont

in games where height matters (ie for a player body) they'll usually just ask the player for their height or measure it based on the height difference from the universe origin

there's truly no good way of getting a player's height without asking them directly, and even then that isn't always accurate when the playspace drifts around over time

so half the time you just have to wing it lol

for the people that have big ass expensive setups with multiple trackers it's a lot easier to figure out though, considering they'll usually have hip and foot trackers

though, considering that's a tiny amount of the overall vr population, i'd just rely on the difference between the head and the universe origin

Gvarados 04-Aug-21 01:39 PM

works pretty good

I livestreamed making a basic vr mode

Gvarados

Click to see attachment 🖼️

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:47 PM

This is what resident evil 7 is on PSVR basically, just need to attach the hands directly to the camera

Gvarados

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Ambient 04-Aug-21 01:50 PM

nice

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:51 PM

You probably reset your standing position to get it to look like that while at your computer I'm guessing

Gvarados 04-Aug-21 01:51 PM

yes

Pred

seeing him running around is pretty cool. VR + Non-vr gamemodes are gonna be awesome

Ambient 04-Aug-21 01:52 PM

oooo sweet! reminds me of that one roblox vr thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d0xoiluJHk this video is kinda cringe but its the best example i could get

Elitelupus

Roblox VR Hands But I Make people HAPPY

Gvarados 04-Aug-21 01:52 PM

we need a way to get the player's offset from their standing position

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:52 PM

Yeah, that's gonna be their head position

Ambient

oooo sweet! reminds me of that one roblox vr thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d0xoiluJHk this video is kinda cringe but its the best example i could get

Pred 04-Aug-21 01:52 PM

Yeah I saw that video a while ago, It had the same feel! Gonna be cool to see what people are gonna make

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:52 PM

HMD position is their local offset from center

Gotta get the X/Y axis and offset the center with it

Or offset the pawn with the X/Y

There's a lot of weird shit that needs figuring out

Pred

Yeah I saw that video a while ago, It had the same feel! Gonna be cool to see what people are gonna make

Ambient 04-Aug-21 01:53 PM

Yeah, i feel like thats the best way to combine vr and non vr players in one game tbh adds a lot of interaction

1

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:54 PM

But grabbing head pose should be just as hard/easy as getting hand poses

So we'll probably get those at the same time

Gvarados 04-Aug-21 01:55 PM

can't forget about vive trackers

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:56 PM

Yeah

Technically should be a matter of getting roles' poses

Gvarados 04-Aug-21 01:57 PM

yes

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 01:58 PM

But I have zero C++ knowledge so I have no idea how to help Garry figure that shit out

garry 04-Aug-21 02:01 PM

is there a way to debug this actions stuff

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:01 PM

I think in the binding UI?

garry 04-Aug-21 02:01 PM

for right hand I'm doing "/actions/default/in/handposeright"

and input source handle "/user/hand/right"

bindings_touch.json

2.55 KB

actions.json

1.74 KB

actions_en_US.json

2.78 KB

does this look all right

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:04 PM

As far as I can see, yes

I crossreferenced it with my game's bindings, looks correct

Though I have localization inside my actions file but I doubt that makes a difference

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:05 PM

i always have unity generate default bindings for me

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:06 PM

Well yeah but he can't exactly do that

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:06 PM

there has to be a tool for it somewhere

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:06 PM

..Yeah. SteamVR bindings menu.

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:06 PM

oh

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:06 PM

I doubt he manually typed all this shit up

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:06 PM

fair

garry 04-Aug-21 02:07 PM

I copied it from alyx haha I didn't know steamvr had a bindings menu

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:07 PM

Should be under controller settings

garry 04-Aug-21 02:08 PM

oh I might be using the wrong controllers

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:08 PM

Hmm how so?

You're just using touch controllers right

garry 04-Aug-21 02:08 PM

it's showing as these circle things

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/70d2a317-0334-4d26-a1be-35b1b7fbdfd5.png

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/392a3540-a2fc-4047-b0b0-9ec196c3f569.png

called legacy?

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:09 PM

Yeah, same ones

Legacy bindings = old input system

So the input system doesn't know you have custom actions set up yet (edited)

garry 04-Aug-21 02:09 PM

oh what's the new input systems

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:10 PM

The old binding system basically just had a limited controller button set mapped, the new one is the actions based binding system you've been trying to get set up

garry 04-Aug-21 02:10 PM

is this some steamworks thing that I have to do on the backend

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:10 PM

But it seems like the steamVR input system doesn't know there's an actions.json file yet

I feel like you need to reference it somewhere

Shouldn't require backend setup

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:11 PM

i know this is a unity tutorial

https://valvesoftware.github.io/steamvr_unity_plugin/tutorials/SteamVR-Input.html

but it does help explain a bit on how the action system works

and how to debug it

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:12 PM

The unity version is just it automatically knowing there's an actions.json file, because it knows it needs to use one

garry 04-Aug-21 02:12 PM

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/27e9e8a2-8fb6-402f-a508-890c4a446189.png

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:12 PM

In C++ you might need to manually reference it so the game knows wtf it's doing

garry 04-Aug-21 02:12 PM

what a bunch of fuck

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:12 PM

And yeah, I've seen that, my game doesn't need it for some reason

idk if it's actually required to get it to work, but maybe it makes it work in the fancy C++ way?

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:13 PM

What's that screenshot from?

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:13 PM

The Steamworks backend

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:13 PM

Ah

Yeah that makes sense

garry 04-Aug-21 02:14 PM

so many fucking hoops to jump through

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:14 PM

Yeahh honestly I was super torn on this being a good system for a long while

But you're literally locked out of a bunch of fancy input features if you don't use it

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:15 PM

I definitely prefer setting up bindings with the action system as opposed to the old legacy system on the user side at least

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:15 PM

i love it personally, its a nice abstraction, and you get to outsource the effort of making bindings to your community

with their little workshop system

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:15 PM

That's part of why I ended up swayed to it being a nice system

It's just way more flexible, after you wrap your head around it and jump through the hoops to get it working

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:16 PM

Yeah that checks out

garry 04-Aug-21 02:17 PM

I don't think we want to do anything that special

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:17 PM

you get it for no extra effort I believe (edited)

garry 04-Aug-21 02:17 PM

controller positions, finger positions, buttons

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:17 PM

just by setting up the system the way its meant to be set up

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:17 PM

Finger positions are part of the skeletal system, which requires using the input system

Legacy input system is controller positions, limited button set that doesn't cover all controller buttons

Since the legacy system is designed to only support Vive wands, basically

In the end you should be good just making an actions json file and then setting the actual controller bindings using the binding interface from that @garry

Makes sure you can't typo paths to certain buttons

Gvarados 04-Aug-21 02:24 PM

tbh this vr is useful for non-vr stuff too

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:24 PM

How so?

Actually, does UI stuff show up in VR or no?

Gvarados 04-Aug-21 02:25 PM

no

no ui in vr

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:25 PM

Need that Diegetic 3D UI

Gvarados 04-Aug-21 02:25 PM

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:25 PM

A-la starcitizen

Gvarados 04-Aug-21 02:26 PM

I could make a non-vr game

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:26 PM

Damn, was kinda wondering if the game just stuck the UI to your face or something

Gvarados 04-Aug-21 02:26 PM

and have the camera positioned by a vr tracked object

not that anyone would ever play that.......

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:26 PM

That sounds arbitrary and useless yes

Haggets 04-Aug-21 02:26 PM

that sounds jarring as hell

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:26 PM

I feel like VR could be pretty useful for SFM actually

Mocap stuff for one, but it'd be sweet if you could go into VR and have a sort of virtual camera rig set up on your controller

Gvarados 04-Aug-21 02:27 PM

yes

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:27 PM

So if you want a natural sorta shaky cam/steadycam shot you don't need to manually animate it

You can just get in VR and point it at whatever needs to be pointed at

Electrisoma 04-Aug-21 02:28 PM

with the original sfm you need to own a kinect and a $300 program to get mocap data (edited)

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:28 PM

Now that I think about it, the camera thing can probably be made as an addon

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:31 PM

with the worldspace panels vr UI is not a far cry

away

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:33 PM

Is there worldspace panels?

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:33 PM

Added recently I believe

Ryhon 04-Aug-21 02:33 PM

Yes

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:33 PM

I dunno if you can actually interact with em yet though

DEADMONSTOR 04-Aug-21 02:33 PM

You can't I don't think

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:34 PM

It's something at least

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:34 PM

That's just another step to add really

First get that bindings shit figured out

ShadowBrain

Is there worldspace panels?

Pred 04-Aug-21 02:34 PM

Just tried adding a worldspace panel. It spawns 2 instances. 1 is rendered on the left eye and the other on the right lol. One had the rotation I added, the other didn't

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:36 PM

Classic stereo incompatibility

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:36 PM

oh noooo

OH NOOOO

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:36 PM

?

It's just a bug

Stop freaking out

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:36 PM

:P

Pred 04-Aug-21 02:37 PM

Ye, early days x :

For now, just play with your right eye closed and it works fine :)

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:38 PM

Guess we can start using the vr versions of shaders?

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:39 PM

I assume there's not much point/difference since the regular shaders render in VR fine I think (edited)

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 02:41 PM

i sorta wish that steamvr still exposed all the inputs in the legacy way

steamvr input is good tho but yeah i really wish it wasn't so...

layered.

also the binding ui is actually so shitty still despite valve completely redesigning steamvr's ui to actually be nice

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:43 PM

Yeah and it fucks up randomly, doesn't convey saving/uploading decently

Lots wrong

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 02:43 PM

awkwardly navigate a big picture ui that hardly responds instead of just hitting a button on the controller then selecting what you want it to do

i want valve to just rip out big picture entirely there is not a single moment in my waking life i ever want to be put into a big picture ui

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:45 PM

Hey they reworked big picture for the new SteamOS

I'm sure that'll make its way to PC and then VR

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 02:46 PM

yeah but are they actually ripping out the old one or are they just selectively replacing the parts that are relevant to the deck

it's like how they keep slowly replacing vgui but vgui is still all over the place despite that

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:47 PM

Iirc the new big picture stuff is totally new stuff that's in the vein of the new friends list/steam library

Not just built off the old big picture mode

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 02:48 PM

i wanna see a modern steam sorta in the same vein as egs or the bnet launcher, i don't give a shit if it's an electron disaster that takes up 1gb of ram, i just want it to be functional (edited)

say what you will about blizzard, the battlenet launcher is actually pretty decent visually

the new steamvr ui actually feels a lot like they made that effort too, they just need to make the extra effort to push past the last few ugly ass parts of big picture that are left behind

Daniel 04-Aug-21 02:49 PM

What is the difference between the normal and vr versions of shaders anyway

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:49 PM

The only reason I use big picture is to launch overlay apps like ovr toolkit and fpsvr

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 02:50 PM

is there a diff, i thought it was just that "vr simple" and "vr complex" are named that way cause it's based on hl alyx

walllable 04-Aug-21 02:50 PM

Those don't appear in the regular library screen for whatever reason

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 02:57 PM

@garry did that manifest path shit do anything?

garry 04-Aug-21 03:00 PM

nothing

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:01 PM

i can't remember but i think steamvr has some function that you might need to call to set the path for actions.json

but i think the docs say it should pick up on the steamworks setting automatically if it's being used

garry 04-Aug-21 03:01 PM

I'm getting EVRInputError::VRInputError_NoData when calling GetPoseActionData

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:03 PM

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr/blob/master/headers/openvr.h#L4916

openvr/openvr.h at master · ValveSoftware/openvr

OpenVR SDK. Contribute to ValveSoftware/openvr development by creating an account on GitHub.

says you shouldn't need to do that tho hmm

garry 04-Aug-21 03:04 PM

it's being set for sure

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:05 PM

Is it? Did you check the controller bindings overlay to see if it's changed to your custom action set? (edited)

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:05 PM

i wonder if it is defaulting to the legacy bindings since it was launched once already before you had it all setup

tho that should at least return something i imagine

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:06 PM

Nah it should be overridable even if it was legacy once (edited)

garry 04-Aug-21 03:07 PM

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/8506d387-6485-4370-8b92-f073477b71e0.png

it's showing this now

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:07 PM

That's progress

garry 04-Aug-21 03:07 PM

maybe GetPoseActionData is bullshit

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:07 PM

It might be

garry 04-Aug-21 03:08 PM

or I should be calling it on a skeleton instead of a pose

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:08 PM

there's a diff function for skeletal input

i think

it's been a while since i fucked around with steamvr

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:09 PM

I'm talking completely out of my ass here, it does UE4's SteamVR SDK use C++? Maybe it has some similar stuff you could reference as opposed to going in blind or referencing Unity's or something (edited)

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:10 PM

I mean the Unity plugin also has to interface with the C++ functions

So either one is useful to check out I suppose

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:10 PM

That's true

garry 04-Aug-21 03:11 PM

I also have the code to alyx

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:12 PM

Oh right, forgot about that lol

garry 04-Aug-21 03:12 PM

they're not really using GetPoseActionData in it

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:12 PM

you don't have to call UpdateActionState before hand do you?

openvr has so many stupid ways to poll input and they're all confusing and half undocumented

garry 04-Aug-21 03:13 PM

I was assuming that all that was being done since the GMD is moving

HMD

oh I see a bunch of action set shit though

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:14 PM

it looks like vrmod for gmod uses WaitForPoses then UpdateActionState

garry 04-Aug-21 03:14 PM

maybe that's not set up

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:14 PM

but yeah if the hmd is tracked i'm not sure

garry 04-Aug-21 03:16 PM

this is probably it, the action set buyllshit

1

got a new error

2

1

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:21 PM

I remember "activating" action sets being a thing

They removed that from the unity plugin iirc because it was confusing

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:22 PM

probably a silly ask but will you be able to poll pose for more than just hmd + controllers? things like vive trackers.

this doesn't have to be something exposed to usercmds

just being able to grab data clientside would be enough

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:23 PM

Matter of checking different roles' poses I think

garry 04-Aug-21 03:23 PM

ideally you'll get full access clientside

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:23 PM

bangin

garry 04-Aug-21 03:23 PM

but yeah the common stuff will be usercmd

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:24 PM

I know that you can have different bindings for different contexts, like having different binds for being in-game and being in a menu or something

Vivecraft does that pretty nicely

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:25 PM

That's what action sets do

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:25 PM

honestly considering the complexity of steamvr input i think i'd rather it just be like, PrimaryButton, SecondaryButton, Trigger, Grip, etc.

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:25 PM

Vivecraft just has it's binding shit pretty nicely implemented in general imo

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:25 PM

i don't want to faf around with that stuff in s&box

the only problem i could forsee from something like that is you have to special case the vive wands

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:26 PM

It's action sets the create divisions in the binding ui

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:26 PM

I figured the way he was gonna go about it was in a similar way to regular controllers

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:26 PM

if we have full access clientside it hardly matters

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:27 PM

I suppose so

It would be pretty nice to have a way to rebind different gamemodes' bindings in-game, since setting up bindings in SteamVR would affect all gamemodes, which can be annoying if you just want to change the bindings for one particular game and are fine with the bindings in another game

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:28 PM

hmm

the main menu should have a giant terry floating above you in vr like that horrifying concept art that was posted a few devblogs ago

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:30 PM

Lol that'd be great

He gets angry when you put your laser/finger/whatever over the exit button

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:33 PM

how suitable is the ik stuff for doing fully body presence anyways

garry 04-Aug-21 03:34 PM

woop woop

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/f6127716-f5f7-4770-bf0b-137ce7afd3f5.png

turns out I was doing it the hard way

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:35 PM

Sweet

What was the easy way?

Pred 04-Aug-21 03:35 PM

Sweet! gj

garry 04-Aug-21 03:35 PM

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/efa9b5dd-1090-4298-92b5-c919db436f9f.png

they already wrapped it all

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:35 PM

god i am actually so ready to sink my teeth into this

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:35 PM

Oh lol

garry 04-Aug-21 03:38 PM

alright thats cool, matrixes for hmd both eyes and middle, all tracked object matrices and velocities, all tracked object inputs

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:39 PM

even skeletal?

i guess it'd have to have that cause alyx uses it

garry 04-Aug-21 03:39 PM

skeletal is in there, but not accessible via this easymode method

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:40 PM

ah

garry 04-Aug-21 03:40 PM

I thought I saw they were encoding the hand pose to a single int in the usrcmd for alyx but that can't be right

my brain was thinking whether it was possible somehow

like if there's int_max possible finger positions and maybe they did it that way

SadlyItsBradley 04-Aug-21 03:45 PM

I'm so exited for this. Thank you for working on it! I know VR is definitely not the most huge thing to work on when it comes to scale of return for player base. But man, much appreciated

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:45 PM

Afaik the hand pose is a full skeleton system right

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:45 PM

yep

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:45 PM

Though curl data is how it used to be done and that can still be gotten from the API

I fought for that actually, they were going to only make it skeleton based

Since curls was Knuckles EV1.3 shit

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:45 PM

that's pretty useful since it cuts the work down a ton

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:46 PM

Which I broke like 20 sets of

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:46 PM

instead of IKing a hand you just have an open and closed pose and apply the transforms individually

not nearly as convincing but Good Enough™️

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:46 PM

Yup, that's what I did in Climbey

BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:46 PM

remember finger splays

and how they never happened

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:46 PM

Splays exist in the API

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM

they do yeah

BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM

yeah, but not on the controllers sadly

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM

There's just no controller that supports them yet

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM

whatever

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM

Index controllers can't track fingers that far from the controller

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM

until someone makes a good consumer vr glove it probably won't happen

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM

It's like only 2-3cm off the controller

Where splay data is still highly unreliable

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM

I think I've heard they're trying to do that for the index 2's controllers

UselessGhost

until someone makes a good consumer vr glove it probably won't happen

BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM

yeah, unfortunately

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM

index 2?

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:47 PM

Don't remember where I heard it from though

Some kinda patent stuff

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:48 PM

i think all of that stuff has just been conjecture based on patents valve has been filing-- yeah

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:48 PM

Though I did get some guy's leap motion driver to support splays I believe

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:48 PM

i got a leap motion i could do that

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:48 PM

But eventually that driver stopped working and the guy hasn't updated his driver

BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM

aw

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM

I even got him to set the tracking level to 5

or 4?

whatever is the highest one

Willox 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM

does steamvr work with the quest hand tracking? (edited)

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM

Nope

Willox 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM

aw

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM

honestly as much as i'd love for full skeletal support having open and closed finger poses is good enough and avoids the feeling of "wait why did i fucking buy these controllers"

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM

Yeah finger curls work fine enough

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:49 PM

getting kicked back to the quest 2 for a month was sort of an eye opener of how little it fucking matters

CAN'T CRUSH CANS IN HL ALYX THO

BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:50 PM

i cannot wait to see how cursed terry's meaty fingers will be to use

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:50 PM

can crushing in alyx should be a fucking game on it's own

it's so goddamn satisfying

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:50 PM

You can crush cans in alyx without index controllers

It's just not granular

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:50 PM

@garry Happen to have a quick code snippet to set IK targets on terry's hands? maybe the head too

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM

yeah but it doesn't feel good

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM

Yeah

BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM

sometimes I get scared that I'll fucking crush through my controllers with how primally satisfying it is to just obliterate cans and bottles in HLA

Willox 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM

i never tried doing that...

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM

it should be really easy to put together an anim graph that has targets for hands (and feet if you want)

making it look convincing is another story

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM

Can crush snowballs in Climbey with it too btw

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:51 PM

Personally not having to hold the controllers at all times (and the joystick) (and also the finger tracking is still cool to me) made the knuckles worth it to me

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM

yeah like compared to the vive wands it's still no question, even if they're filled with useless features

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM

And they're cheaper despite having like double the amount of sensors inside

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM

just delete the trackpad man

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM

The finger tracking is actually quite nice in VRchat

Willox 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM

index stuff is cool but i find oculus controllers easier to actually play games with

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM

I like having the trackpad, bit only as an extra button

BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM

the finger tracking is goofy as hell and I still think it's a gimmick but I'm all for it

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM

i rest my finger on the trackpad all the time and in the ui it constantly scrolls shit, i hate that

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:52 PM

If they replaced the trackpad with a regular button I wouldn't miss it

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM

i think having the trackpad as an input is fine

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM

Replace the trackpad with a larger joystick that doesn't break ever

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM

like, as a button

but yeah, as a trackpad, fucking nope

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM

I rarely use it as an actual trackpad

BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM

maybe it's just because I have tiny baby hands but the trackpad works well for me

i just wish it was clicky

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM

My hands are like, normal-ish size but my fingers are long

Willox 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM

and what's the deal with the index controller's terrible joystick clicking

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM

They were really proud of the EV2 prototype's trackpad being squishy

Willox 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM

it just doesn't work right

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM

I need to get that booster adapter thing sometime

Willox

index stuff is cool but i find oculus controllers easier to actually play games with

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:53 PM

i thought that myself but i think the index controllers have way more natural throwing motions, and they feel better in gun games

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM

I don't like how tiny the oculus controllers feel

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM

that said, i think the oculus controllers are very very comfy

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM

The handles aren't long enough

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM

Throwing 100% feels much better on index

And Oculus controllers are for baby hands, they're tiny

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM

the index controllers are also...... worse????? for beat saber imo.

BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM

beat saber lol

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM

i say that with lots of question marks cause like, tracking is better

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM

Beat saber should never define how good/bad something is

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM

but the index controllers are too heavy

BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:54 PM

i get what you mean though

the index controllers aren't like, handles anymore like the vive wands

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:55 PM

I'm fine with the weight of the index controller, personally

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:55 PM

i mean the index controllers if you loosen the grip are fine

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:55 PM

I never really notice it

BlockBuilder57 04-Aug-21 03:55 PM

they're meant to be roughly hand fitting

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:55 PM

i use em like swords and just grip the entire base of it

but then the alignment feels a bit wonky and getting that tuned in so it stops feeling like that is weird

the oculus controllers feel like way less of a fuss to get working in a way that feels right in beat saber, and i wasn't like getting consistently worse scores with it vs my index like how my cv1 was way worse

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM

Ive heard the main problem with BS on index was how the sabers were rotated

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM

yeah

they feel weird

idk why

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM

Or tilted or whatever

Can't you fix that in the settings menu?

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM

playing with alignment helps but i still feel like they're off in a weird, immeasurable way

yeah

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM

Ah

Willox 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM

i remember some games had problems where they treated up on the joystick as sort of... not up because of the angles of the controllers

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:57 PM

but only in like, vague sweeping steps of like, hitting a button to rotate it a bit, instead of just having it be like

"grip the saber in front of you" then calibrating off that

walllable 04-Aug-21 03:58 PM

Granted I play beat saber really casually (I usually only play on hard on the stock levels) but I found it generally fine

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:58 PM

it is a wonder my index hmd has had absolutely zero issues because the amount of sweat i have put into that thing playing e+ beat saber customs is insane

Willox

i remember some games had problems where they treated up on the joystick as sort of... not up because of the angles of the controllers

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 03:59 PM

i think either this was fixed or valve put a setting in the options menu that let you fix it. i don't really notice it nor have i ever really noticed it

Willox 04-Aug-21 04:00 PM

i'm talking when it was brand new

so games didn't really have the support

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:00 PM

yeah i've had my index since launch

idk. maybe i'm a freak? i got small hands so some things people complain about i never notice

Willox 04-Aug-21 04:00 PM

i'm pretty sure recroom did it

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:01 PM

i sorta want an index 2 now that it's sort of a thing patents are hinting at

quest 2 spoiled me, wireless vr is fun

wireless fbt vrchat is sort of insane, the freedom you get from not being locked down to shit

i hope that's a reality and also isn't a fucking pcie card like the vive wireless kit was since i got an mitx build

Willox 04-Aug-21 04:02 PM

i thought i'd always go for the vr with the best refresh rate/resolution but the quest 2 really did show me how it's important to have as few annoyances during setup as possible

calibrating a space? no thanks i'll just draw a square on the floor

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:02 PM

Hmm so there's IK chains set up on terry's arms and legs, I wonder if you can just programmatically set them since the animation graph already applies the IK simulation (edited)

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:02 PM

should be able to somewhere

though aren't those more for holdtypes

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:03 PM

No the hold type stuff is applied in the anim graph too but I reckon you can also set the IK target without changing the anim graph

Just not sure if that's exposed to C# :p

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:04 PM

i haven't even touched the anim graph yet so i have no idea but i'd have to assume you're able to somehow

otherwise how do you feed data into it

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:04 PM

Yeah you can probably customize the animgraph since you can set parameters

Just not sure if you can change IK targets without adding new parameters

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM

oh if it's not a param then no probably not

we ask max very nicely to expose those :)

walllable 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM

I wish vmix's parameters were exposed to C#

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM

They included the uncompiled citizen

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM

i imagine terry will become vr ready

walllable 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM

But that's a totally different topic

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM

once vr support is more finalized

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:05 PM

So technically we can just change it

Btw how do people hide parts of a model?

Trying to hide the head so my camera isn't creepily showing the back of the eyes and mouth

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:07 PM

not sure how relevant it is to s&box but the usual approach in source 1 was either bodygroups or scaling the bone

you could also do a clip plane maybe idk

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:07 PM

iirc there's bodygroups set up since people hide shit for certain outfits

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 04:08 PM

clip plane would not work actually cause if you raised your hands too high they'd disappear

hmm

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:08 PM

https://puu.sh/I1vlY/3ac552cefa.png

Yeah so there's a head bodygroup

Just needa figure out the API for it

Oh it's just SetBodyGroup I think

Yup

https://puu.sh/I1vp7/ad08ac8214.png

https://puu.sh/I1vpp/89f49d07b1.png

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:24 PM

Found where it sets the arm IK in the anim graph I think but no idea how to make the target a parameter

...I might have figured it out

walllable 04-Aug-21 04:39 PM

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 04:42 PM

Weirdly it seems to "work" but also not because setting the parameter vector of the ik target doesn't change the hands in the game despite the value definitely changing

But if I set the vector in the anim graph it does change the IK target so it definitely uses the parameter, just doesn't check it past the initial update?

So either it's glitching out or I'm missing some setting that makes it re-check the IK target somewhere

I got it sort of working, just gotta figure out hand rotation setting really

Which is tricky because it needs to override the animations

The fact that the IK stuff doesn't have a rotation override is pretty annoying

Yeah, can't seem to override rotation on an animation without probably adding a bunch of janky nodes to the animgraph :/

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:00 PM

oh

if you can't set rotation that sort of sucks

but wait how does the worldmodel ik work then, terry's arm twists a bit

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:01 PM

The only bone related code you can do is "SetBoneTransform" which seems to be completely ignored by animated objects (edited)

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:01 PM

or is that just because there's no animation being applied

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:02 PM

I figured the IK would also angle the hands but it doesn't for some reason

OVerriding the IK target with a custom parameter is as far as I've got it working

https://puu.sh/I1w1u/73f8dd32df.mp4

The slow body twist/rotation also makes the IK not so good at keeping up unless you're walking forward

But I'll yeet that later when the hand tracked stuff is in

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:04 PM

to be entirely fair you'd probably not want to be using the stock anim graph on a vr char

might be a nonissue

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:04 PM

Ehhh maybe

It'd kinda suck if VR support involved a separate Terry with different animgraph assigned

Though the current animgraph is already massive and slightly laggy on my system so perhaps it is more responsible to not extend it to include VR support

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:05 PM

i imagine at some point terry's default graph will get optimized for vr

or just a different one entirely

but honestly most of the stuff in the anim graph is irrelevant for vr, since usually playing an animation on the player's body will feel weird

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:06 PM

Crouching and walking would work

But would need less headbob probably

Either way I've got a basic thing working for when hands are in, just gotta figure out rotation really

https://puu.sh/I1w3J/de42e5b802.png

Had to find this node https://puu.sh/I1w4Q/99b4c3503b.png

And change this shit https://puu.sh/I1w5c/15c58baf75.png

After I added the two vector parameters for it

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:08 PM

i'm glad at the very least the ik solver seems serviceable for this

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:08 PM

So not super rocket sciency, but I do need to get that rotation figured out

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:08 PM

you could just do something like vrchat's ik system where it has lots of checks to turn on and off canned anims like walking

Daniel 04-Aug-21 05:09 PM

IK vr arms have always felt odd to me

and i definitely dont want terrys arms

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:09 PM

Perhaps I can figure out how to mask off the hand animations entirely

Daniel 04-Aug-21 05:09 PM

i dont wanna be terry

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:09 PM

oh i mean terry's will feel off, he's a stubby little thumb dude but

i always was impressed by how convincing vr arms in like vrchat were

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:09 PM

Yeah I reckon you can also just disable the arm body group

Have floating hands

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:09 PM

vrchat uses some proprietary asset store thing tho

finalik

and idk what it does differently to make things feel convincing

i would sort of hope that with the right restrictions on each bone it wouldn't feel too weird?

i'm hopeful that fbt can be functional too

i guess we'll see

ShadowBrain

https://puu.sh/I1w1u/73f8dd32df.mp4

walllable 04-Aug-21 05:12 PM

It's funny seeing his hand open and close as he walks

Seeing them relatively up close like that though, they did a good job, it looks really nice

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:15 PM

But yeah, all I can do is set the hands/IK to the controllers once the position stuff is in

No idea how to remove all animation from the hands so I can override the rotation

The animgraph is very complex and mostly useless for VR from what I can see

Works ok from the pelvis down but anything upwards probably needs to be mostly re-done

Just floating hands looks ok https://puu.sh/I1wfP/9dc39bc45a.mp4

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:22 PM

where is the ik target in these videos

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:22 PM

100 units from eyepos, forward

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:22 PM

ah

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:23 PM

Figured it was enough to check I could reliably set it to something

Will be more clear how off it is with controller position in VR (edited)

Might make a proof of concept animgraph later that doesn't apply any animation on anything except for the fingers for finger tracking (edited)

In cases like this it sucks that the animgraph is assigned in modeldoc instead of dynamically though

Would be nicer if I could just drop in a VR-focused animgraph without needing to copy the terry model and assign a different animgraph

ShadowBrain

Would be nicer if I could just drop in a VR-focused animgraph without needing to copy the terry model and assign a different animgraph

Gvarados 04-Aug-21 05:27 PM

this

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:27 PM

Even as just like an optional override thing you can do in script

So nothing breaks but you can just override animgraphs

UselessGhost 04-Aug-21 05:28 PM

you should drop that in #feature-requests cause being able to throw a diff anim graph at stuff might be nice

no clue if that's doable but you know whatever

walllable 04-Aug-21 05:28 PM

Or make an issue for it so that it doesn't get buried and lost

ShadowBrain 04-Aug-21 05:28 PM

Mhm same, with how shit has to recompile idk

I reckon they probably read through feature-requests pretty closely

garry

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/70d2a317-0334-4d26-a1be-35b1b7fbdfd5.png

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 03:18 AM

I realize I never explained why you were seeing this controller, Touch controllers never changed their available inputs (for the most part) so Valve just made them all use the same binding set across Rift CV1, Rift S, Quest 1 and Quest 2. One exception is Rift S and Quest 1 got rid of the capacitive thumb rest, which they re-added to Quest 2. Barely used for anything beside hand animation though.

1

That lower-ring picture is just the first gen touch controller

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 06:10 AM

Tbh given how rare CV1 rift users are nowadays I'm not sure why they haven't updated it to be one of the upper ring ones

I guess it gives you a clear view of the buttons compared to those other models

@garry does HL:A actually use "FingerCurlThumb" and shit?

When Valve swapped to Knuckles EV2 they updated the API to have the finger curls be part of the skeleton API, and told devs to stop using curls like that because it was Knuckles EV1.3 shit, I never checked out the actions in alyx before but the curls are all there as actions, which is redundant

Interesting to see they never cleaned up their actions list

But maybe they had a good reason for it

Climbey used to have finger curl actions, but I deleted all of em and swapped over to using the skeleton api with no issues

EV1.3 had all the finger curls exposed as separate things you could bind to in the binding overlay, but with EV2+ they got rid of all that so you technically can't bind them but if I recall correctly the curl binds are still possible if you manually write them into your json

Just dunno if they actually function on non-index controllers if you're using them that way instead of the skeletal api way

garry 05-Aug-21 07:00 AM

they use the skeleton stuff for sure

so maybe that's all just left in stuff

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:05 AM

Yeah must be (edited)

@MaxLebled Hey max, happen to know how to mask off Terry's upper body to not have any animation? I'm having some trouble figuring out bone masks

Probably just don't understand how they work properly

I know there's an "only upper body" bone mask but idk if I need the inverse of that to achieve this

Idea is to rip all the upper body animation out, then have it do arm IK based on VR controllers

After I figure that out I can start adding some of the smoothed upper body rotation/position stuff in again based on the VR headset pose

MaxLebled 05-Aug-21 07:09 AM

yeah, that was my idea too

i'll add that now

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:10 AM

Also no clue how to make it angle the hands to whatever a theoretical controller angle would have, seem to just be stuck in one direction after I override the IK target

But again, probably just because of my lack of understanding of the animation graph editor

Wasn't sure if you were wanting to have the VR compatible animations as part of the same animation graph given its already massive scope

garry 05-Aug-21 07:14 AM

with the vr controllers do you think I should bind things literally, like Right Controller Trigger, Right Controller Grip, Right Controller Stick

rather than Right Shoot, Right Hold

the argument against being literal is if the control methods change dramatically

maybe people using actual hand tracking

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:15 AM

technically Valve recommends actions be named as actions, so the latter, but with how standardized VR controllers are getting the literal version makes more sense in my mind these days

garry 05-Aug-21 07:16 AM

yeah, we're making a decision for multiple games, so we can't be like Right Shoot because it might not be shoot

1

(although that doesn't stop us with Attack etc for mouse button)

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:16 AM

The legacy input system actually had all the button names and then the action based system was supposed to get away from that but then devs start naming their actions button names anyway

garry 05-Aug-21 07:16 AM

I think from a developer pov Right Trigger makes a ton more sense

any new input methods could bind to Right Trigger and it'll be all good

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:17 AM

Generally most controllers have button 1, button 2, joystick, joystick click, grip, trigger

Index and WMR has a secondary 2-axis input in the form of a touchpad

And vive wands only have a touchpad and a button 1

garry 05-Aug-21 07:18 AM

this touch controller seems to have a touchpad

I'll get the obvious stuff binded first then we can work our way around

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:18 AM

Well I mean it has a "touchpad" but it's not a 2-axis pad it's just a binary on/off one

garry 05-Aug-21 07:18 AM

wtf

rewakky

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:19 AM

Yeah

It's a thumb rest

idk why they put it back in

garry 05-Aug-21 07:19 AM

I guess just to asses the hand pose better

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:19 AM

A very rare subset of apps will use that as a 3rd button but it's not tactile so it's easy to accidentally trigger

The lowest common denominator is vive wands because they have the lowest amount of buttons/input available (edited)

Trigger, grip, 2-axis touchpad and menu button

The menu button isn't a commonly available thing, basically only WMR controllers and Vive wands have it

Since the menu button on Touch is used to bring up the SteamVR overlay

Given Oculus' domination of the SteamVR headset list it's probably a relatively safe bet to go for the input set Touch controllers provide as the default, and then to figure out some touchpad zone based shit for vive wands to make it compatible with the amount of inputs though

Idk if you also want to give devs access to a secondary 2-axis input or not, but that's only relevant for Index controllers and WMR controllers

And on Index you can also have a secondary grip axis that's actuated by the pressure sensor in the grips there

But that'd literally only be relevant for index as no other controller has such a feature

Fun though, I guess. Can have special squeeze features in your gamemode if the user is on index

I noticed there's still a bunch of rendering bugs in VR btw, the debug graphics seem to render way off like when VR was first added in that stretched kind of way

Also, the SteamVR input system has functions to check if a specific action is bound at all, if you expose that somehow devs would be able to check if specific features are available on a controller or not and turn features on/off based on that. Could be good to get more use out of the secondary 2-axis input and the secondary grip axis

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 07:43 AM

Oh right very specifically the Vive Cosmos controllers have a bumper button above the trigger, but they removed this from the Vive Focus 3 controllers because no one was using it hah

ShadowBrain

@MaxLebled Hey max, happen to know how to mask off Terry's upper body to not have any animation? I'm having some trouble figuring out bone masks

MaxLebled 05-Aug-21 08:24 AM

done, b_vr animation controller input

it's... a start! as for handling controller input and doing arms on that, that's another can of worms

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 08:26 AM

We can either set the IK target to the controller position or turn off all body groups except hands and set those bones to the controller positions and animate fingers from there

Would be nice to have a head bodygroup that doesn't leave a giant hole in the neck, maybe have it just be skin colored or slightly darkened

For first person chest

Perhaps one for legs too but that seems like it'd pop up less

MaxLebled 05-Aug-21 08:27 AM

my best guess is that the modelspace IK bones (hand_*_IK_target) would be directly taken control of

by code. somehow.

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 08:28 AM

I tried that for some reason it doesn't let me

I'm assuming b_vr is a bool parameter?

MaxLebled 05-Aug-21 08:29 AM

correct

i'll put in the hand IK stuff in now (just not the code input side

)

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 08:29 AM

Cool, this should work for that then https://puu.sh/I1FkI/9de3b24066.png

Hand position stuff we don't have access to yetttt but Garry got it working so he's probably working out all the buttons before comitting that

Cool to see "duck" is a float, when we get head position data I'll shove a value in there too

MaxLebled 05-Aug-21 08:32 AM

yeah not sure yet how we'll do the pelvis stuff

VR is a big can of worms etc

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 08:32 AM

Yeahh it's why I wasn't sure if you were going to add all the VR related animation to the same animgraph

But I guess with b_vr that kind of confirms that's how it'll be

MaxLebled 05-Aug-21 08:50 AM

ok, b_vr now sets the arms to follow the modelspace IK targets

the idea is that if you lose tracking, the code would stop overriding the IK bones, and could fall back onto the underlying animation as backup

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 08:53 AM

I'd test it but the build bot seems to not have done anything for the past hour :p

Spiral 05-Aug-21 09:37 AM

Yes Garry we are hungry FEED US

garry 05-Aug-21 09:39 AM

https://tenor.com/view/tom-and-jerry-chick-feed-eat-gif-14825827

9

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 10:02 AM

Seriously tho the build bot broke I think

DEADMONSTOR 05-Aug-21 10:04 AM

@garry (pls ^)

QuackCocaine 05-Aug-21 10:29 AM

https://tenor.com/view/hungry-please-sir-may-i-have-some-more-oliver-mark-lester-poor-gif-7821643

https://tenor.com/view/please-sir-i-want-some-more-food-hungry-gif-15777344

OBRISON 05-Aug-21 10:44 AM

update windows on build bot

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 11:07 AM

Setting b_vr to true doesn't seem to do anything to the animations, and I can't seem to override the IK target bone though I might need to put it in somewhere that isn't just simulate to override animation, not sure yet

garry 05-Aug-21 11:27 AM

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/948fc090-c002-4464-ae9d-34eda3e6a862.mp4

got some cleaning up to do but it works

DEADMONSTOR 05-Aug-21 11:27 AM

That is amazing

Loxy 05-Aug-21 11:28 AM

that's great

walllable 05-Aug-21 11:28 AM

Love the box hands lol

garry 05-Aug-21 11:29 AM

DebugOverlay wasn't working in VR mode

I lost about 40 mins to that thinking the tracking was in the wrong place

I amde a ticket for @Sam

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 11:29 AM

It works but it's way off like the initial VR rendering was

garry 05-Aug-21 11:30 AM

it's rendering on the HMD like there's one screen

so you only see it in one eye

Willox 05-Aug-21 11:32 AM

same thing probably happens with RenderScene/SceneCapture stuff then?

garry 05-Aug-21 11:33 AM

Ii'm not sure

garry

it's rendering on the HMD like there's one screen

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 11:34 AM

Not just that, it's not in the correct place either

Umbra 05-Aug-21 11:38 AM

it looks jiggly

conneath 05-Aug-21 11:51 AM

Garry how does it feel to have terry tower over you

Shirk 05-Aug-21 11:52 AM

Garry is confirmed to be about 3.5 feet tall

Willox

same thing probably happens with RenderScene/SceneCapture stuff then?

Sam 05-Aug-21 11:52 AM

SceneCaptures are explicitly rendered with VR off, is there any use case where that would be appliable in VR?

Willox 05-Aug-21 11:53 AM

no i'm just thinking about the fact that it's multiple scene renders ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ogniK 05-Aug-21 11:55 AM

VR stuff renders per eye so that's probably the issue

that or the view offset is fucky

garry 05-Aug-21 12:06 PM

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/43059d88-0fd7-4742-ad40-14e2b98bf7a0.mp4

just hacking this together, no real physics interactions

@Laylad could do a better version using welds and stuff

ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:07 PM

Love it

garry 05-Aug-21 12:07 PM

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/c8fbf634-9e3e-44ce-b484-b3c6c5fe2663.png

that's all the code for that

ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:07 PM

Are you going to be shipping a bunch of constraints and pickup points so people don't have to write the same code 100x

garry 05-Aug-21 12:08 PM

I was just thinking that

ogniK

VR stuff renders per eye so that's probably the issue

Sam 05-Aug-21 12:09 PM

We render it instanced at once homie

ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:09 PM

they have per eye view and offsets tho, maybe they're fucked

Sam 05-Aug-21 12:09 PM

The shader might not just be using instancing, I'll have a look later

Ryhon 05-Aug-21 12:09 PM

Are the sausage models placeholders

ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:09 PM

matt 05-Aug-21 12:10 PM

2 sausages in that video :S

Ryhon 05-Aug-21 12:10 PM

Probably could make s&saber work finally

garry 05-Aug-21 12:11 PM

there's a lot of stuff in vr that I skipped

like should we be smoothing the hold points

ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:11 PM

I need to whip out my vive at some point and fuck around with stuff

It might be worth porting over some of alyx' movement options if possible and add some of those as input options for the tag system

Loads of people prefer shit like teleporting since locomotion can make a lot of people feel sick if they ain't use to it

Gvarados 05-Aug-21 12:17 PM

yes

ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:17 PM

since alyx had that fleshed out pretty well, might be worth throwing it all in

Gvarados 05-Aug-21 12:17 PM

there should probably be a vr tab in the settings menu

obviously not all gamemodes will be able to follow the settings 100%

ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:19 PM

vr is a nightmare to get right because of the amount of different playstyles so having a lot of those built in and filters helps a lot

Gvarados 05-Aug-21 12:19 PM

yeah

even basic things like turning has a big impact

I need snap turn, I get sick from smooth turning

but I know a lot of people who get sick from snap turning instead

ogniK 05-Aug-21 12:20 PM

^

Gvarados 05-Aug-21 12:21 PM

plus hand vs head vs waist direction for locomotion movement

Ryhon 05-Aug-21 12:26 PM

Just don't let anyone make h3vr in s&box and we will be fine

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 12:27 PM

Head directed ftw

Gvarados 05-Aug-21 12:27 PM

hand direction makes me sick

Ryhon 05-Aug-21 12:27 PM

The only good way

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 12:28 PM

Compensating for head forward is way easier than hand forward, I don't understand why people like this shit

Gvarados 05-Aug-21 12:31 PM

I need to try waist some time

from what I've heard, once you go waist, you can't go back

requires an extra tracker of course

Ryhon 05-Aug-21 12:32 PM

You just hold the joystick backwars shm

UselessGhost 05-Aug-21 01:47 PM

fucking hand directional is the default in so many games and it's horrible

head relative until i die motherfucker

and yeah, snap turning is a must, but these are things that should probably be handled at the gamemode level imo

though something in the settings menu to enable a convar somewhere would be nice

ShadowBrain

Head directed ftw

rako 05-Aug-21 01:52 PM

fookin A

HMD direction vector for the win

Goret 05-Aug-21 02:25 PM

hmd direction ftw indeed

UselessGhost 05-Aug-21 02:29 PM

ah is the controller stuff not in the steam branch yet

walllable 05-Aug-21 02:29 PM

Nope

UselessGhost 05-Aug-21 02:30 PM

f

walllable 05-Aug-21 02:30 PM

I assume garry's working on it still

UselessGhost 05-Aug-21 02:30 PM

yeah probably

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:17 PM

Hopefully tomorrow

walllable 05-Aug-21 04:17 PM

OBRISON 05-Aug-21 04:21 PM

will it be universal controller support or?

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:22 PM

SteamVR.

So yes

OBRISON 05-Aug-21 04:22 PM

epic

walllable 05-Aug-21 04:22 PM

There might not be optimal binds for controllers that Garry doesn't have or doesn't have experience with but that's what community binds (or just suggesting popular binds to become default) is for (edited)

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:22 PM

Worst case if you have a super niche controller it'll require you to set up bindings, but you can even do that with like a dumb joycon setup

walllable 05-Aug-21 04:23 PM

I do wonder how the vive controller will be handled

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:23 PM

Poorly as it always will be because it's a dumb controller

Vive wands have been holding back VR bindings a bunch

walllable 05-Aug-21 04:24 PM

Lol yeah fair enough

I definitely preferred the wmr controllers over the Vive wands because even just adding a thin stick opened up bindings a whole lot more

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:24 PM

Just gonna assume you bind quadrants to buttons and can only use the 2-axis input in touch mode

walllable 05-Aug-21 04:25 PM

Since you didn't have to choose between making the touchpads do actions or movement/rotation

The thumbsticks could be for movement and the touchpads for other stuff

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:25 PM

Yup (edited)

OBRISON 05-Aug-21 04:25 PM

only issue with wmr are its rings

walllable 05-Aug-21 04:26 PM

And it's also why I kind of wish the new wmr controllers didn't get rid of the touchpad

Especially since they aren't capacitive

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:26 PM

At least the new WMR controllers have more buttons on it

walllable 05-Aug-21 04:27 PM

It's A and B on both controllers I believe, but the same was able to be accomplished with the trackpad being divided into quadrants or something, along with the versatility of just touching the touchpad (VRC's finger gestures come to mind)

I actually don't know how VRChat handles finger gestures on the new wmr controllers

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:27 PM

Nope, G2 controllers have A/B/X/Y

Only index gets A/B/A/B

Which is more sane

walllable 05-Aug-21 04:28 PM

Ah okay, so ab on one controller and xy on the other?

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:28 PM

Yup

walllable 05-Aug-21 04:28 PM

Ah

I feel like my point still stands though at least

ShadowBrain 05-Aug-21 04:28 PM

It sucks because it fucks with SteamVR's mirrored bindings ability

Have to manually set X/Y because it doesn't mirror to what you set A/B to

Naming is very important and having it be asymmetrical is shit (edited)

But yeah an extra touchpad gives you 4 clear quadrants you can use for button input

As opposed to 2 buttons

It's pretty nice

Spiral 05-Aug-21 04:38 PM

cant wait to slap terry's ass in vr

its beveled cylindrical shape is irresistible

Autism 05-Aug-21 04:56 PM

or dont

Autism

or dont

Spiral 05-Aug-21 11:49 PM

I'm gonna do it even harder now

garry 06-Aug-21 07:06 AM

getting somewhere now

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/ceed99c6-6754-403e-90a0-20e5c4581aec.mp4

you can see the client and server difference

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/e91b206c-f150-4dbb-8d43-fc5087436a8a.png

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/418e3f1f-1018-4288-85f7-0d0106b15c16.png

part of the usercmd

gonna clean up and ship this after lunch, then will work on getting triggers and stuff in

braxen 06-Aug-21 07:09 AM

hotdog hand world

garry 06-Aug-21 07:09 AM

Should filtered input be the default and others be TransformRaw

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:10 AM

Hmmm what constitutes filtered? What does filtered do, like, smooth it out?

Also IsVive etc. seems like it might be nicer to have a direct string of the controller name or something instead and have gamemodes deal with any changes based on that?

Because you might have to end up adding a lot of booleans for all the possible controllers people can have, which will definitely not all fall in those categories

garry 06-Aug-21 07:12 AM

already added that tho

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:12 AM

Vive Cosmos controllers have Rift's input set, so if that check is just for the word "vive" that'd be incorrectly reported

garry 06-Aug-21 07:12 AM

I dunno what filtered means, it comes from Valve's internal code

actually looking at the code it does fuck all

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:14 AM

That sounds about right

garry 06-Aug-21 07:14 AM

it's copied straight from the original

maybe they were doing manual filtering at some point

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:14 AM

Yeah I'm sure, Valve probably left a lot of shit in that ended up not actually being used

garry 06-Aug-21 07:14 AM

and now it's part of the internals

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:15 AM

I've never seen filtered in the Unity plugin so I was confused

garry 06-Aug-21 07:15 AM

they're still sending all the filtered values over usercmd though

guess it doesn't matter since alyx is singleplayer

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:16 AM

I'm not even familiar with wtf usercmd is

I guess multiplayer?

stuff

garry 06-Aug-21 07:17 AM

yeah it encodes all the button presses etc into a command and sends it to the server

the client prediction runs the game logic using that command

and the server runs the command on the server

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:17 AM

Ahh, huh, interesting, I guess they wrote that before deciding HL:A was not going to have multiplayer?

garry 06-Aug-21 07:18 AM

no it has to run like that

the engine is all multiplayer whether you like it or not

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:18 AM

So Source 2 is always multiplayer

Neat

garry 06-Aug-21 07:18 AM

client and server is separate

been like that since hl1

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:18 AM

Yeah I never went more than surface level with any source engine stuff

garry 06-Aug-21 07:19 AM

it's good in a way but it leads to some crazy stuff

like when you smash glass in alyx

all the shards have to be serverside because you need to be able to pick them up

so even though it's a procedural model it has to network what it looks like etc to the client

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:19 AM

Funky

garry 06-Aug-21 07:20 AM

which is a lot of hoops to jump through, in c++, when making a singleplayer game

Ryhon 06-Aug-21 07:21 AM

Does it mean it's using twice the memory it should even though it's singleplayer? (edited)

garry 06-Aug-21 07:22 AM

kind of, there's 2 entities for everything

but obviously textures are only clientside, models are shared etc

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:23 AM

I guess specifically for S&Box it's a good thing they stuck to that for HLA despite only using it for singleplayer, though I guess they did use Source 2 for DOTA too

garry 06-Aug-21 07:23 AM

they're always gonna do it this way, even if they know it's gonna be purely single player

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:23 AM

Because it makes the option to go for multiplayer a lot less of a hassle?

garry 06-Aug-21 07:24 AM

yeah, and code reuse

everything already works that way

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:24 AM

Or because re-architecting the engine to be singleplayer takes too much time

Yeah

garry 06-Aug-21 07:24 AM

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/ad98d27f-e180-4293-85c8-159650081f8a.png

just working out what here is useful

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:25 AM

Explains why people were able to add basic multiplayer shit to HL:A pretty quickly

What's throw velocity vs velocity?

I guess they have their own custom throwing velocity based one some multi-frame average or some shit

garry 06-Aug-21 07:26 AM

from what I can see when you loose grip it sets throwvelocity with some custom processing on it, otherwise it's 0

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:26 AM

I've always just kinda implemented throwing by setting it to the controller velocity on release, possibly setting it to hand velocity as it leaves your hand too

garry 06-Aug-21 07:26 AM

looks like it looks at 10 frames history

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:27 AM

But I guess it's nice to have a thing that does a bunch of processing for you

garry 06-Aug-21 07:27 AM

I'm guessing someone at Valve obsessed on this for 2 weeks

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:27 AM

I'm not sold on fingers being numbers instead of their actual names

What index is each finger

garry 06-Aug-21 07:28 AM

that's just how I'm transporting from c++, I'm gonna neaten it up

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:28 AM

Cool, just trying to nitpick it a bit

garry 06-Aug-21 07:29 AM

I'm just glad they didn't have number of fingers as an enum incase we evolved

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:29 AM

So you have grip and trigger analog values, is there going to be like a squeeze analog value too for Index's grip pressure sensor?

I guess this isn't the full input set anyway because it doesn't include the buttons and joystick/trackpad click (edited)

garry 06-Aug-21 07:30 AM

probably

there is another struct for inputs

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:30 AM

Hmm so why is joystick, trigger and grip included in this one

Those I think should just be inputs yeah?

garry 06-Aug-21 07:31 AM

I think this tracking object class was going away

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/25fe44fe-ed55-4ea8-a475-17e7b72aac1d.png

these actions here are things we can add to the binding shit

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:32 AM

Hmmm but this is all still copied from HLA right (edited)

garry 06-Aug-21 07:32 AM

yeah

I'm getting input then I'll genericify it all for us

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:32 AM

Cool

garry 06-Aug-21 07:32 AM

alright I;'m gonna eat

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 07:33 AM

Am still gonna suggest using button 1 and button 2 for the face buttons btw, as opposed to ABXY or in Index's case ABAB

Unity's "XR" layer called them primaryButton and secondaryButton

Joystick being "primary2DAxis" and touchpad being "secondary2DAxis"

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/xr_input.html#XRInputMappings

Their full spreadsheet, though honestly it doesn't even map everything

garry 06-Aug-21 07:38 AM

that's a good call

ShadowBrain

Also IsVive etc. seems like it might be nicer to have a direct string of the controller name or something instead and have gamemodes deal with any changes based on that?

walllable 06-Aug-21 08:00 AM

I agree with this, I think it'd be better to just be able to ask "hey what headset is this?," get a string back, and be able to do what we want with that, especially as more third party headsets come out like the pimax and decagear, and the vive focus 3 as well that Brian mentioned

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:01 AM

Yeah idk what exactly those bools check to return true

walllable 06-Aug-21 08:02 AM

Actually now that I'm reading the code more closely, is that what the Type string is for?

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:04 AM

It's not really that relevant to check what the headset name is, more so the controller name (edited)

Since SteamVR does let you interchange and cross-use lighthouse shit with everything else

walllable 06-Aug-21 08:05 AM

Ah yeah, true

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:05 AM

But even beyond that it might be nicer to just check if specific buttons exist on the controller by checking if they're bound

And then using/not using them based on that

walllable 06-Aug-21 08:06 AM

Do you check for headset in climbey for the multiplayer headset pins?

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:07 AM

Yup

But honestly it's a huge hassle as I had to make custom pin art for every headset, it's not a default feature unlike controller model rendering

walllable 06-Aug-21 08:08 AM

Fair enough

I suppose it was a better looking idea back when it was just the vive and cv1

garry 06-Aug-21 08:09 AM

you already have a string for finer details

.Type

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:10 AM

How do they check for rift/vive/index though? What makes them true/false?

walllable 06-Aug-21 08:10 AM

Yeah I figured that's what that was for, good to have confirmation on that though for a peabrain like me

garry 06-Aug-21 08:10 AM

but it's only gonna be stuff like this

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/06ed0594-1319-46f0-82a1-2a010f4e7e58.png

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:10 AM

Is it just a type string check or is there more to it

garry 06-Aug-21 08:10 AM

I dunno how they know for sure

it's an enum in the engine

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:11 AM

WindowsMR having 2 identical strings is probably the blocky WMR and the Odyssey+ smoothed WMR controller

Reverb is gonna be the Reverb G2 controller because the G1 had the original WMR ones

Pretty confusing list there

garry 06-Aug-21 08:13 AM

one windowsmr is the samsung yeah

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:13 AM

Also "touch" and "rift" will be the same controllers

garry 06-Aug-21 08:13 AM

it's the HMD model

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:13 AM

That.... seems incorrect

There's no HMD model with Touch in the name, and knuckles is explicitly the controllers

The headset's early prototype name was utah

garry 06-Aug-21 08:14 AM

well I dunno I'm following suit from the engine

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:14 AM

I dunno either, that just looks like a weird mix of HMD and controller names (edited)

Knuckles EV1 is also pointless to add because its SteamVR drivers are broken and unusable, I have a box of those sitting in a display case because they're useless

garry 06-Aug-21 08:15 AM

I didn't add it, it's what their api responds with

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:16 AM

Sounds like Valve needs to fix some shit

garry

I'm guessing someone at Valve obsessed on this for 2 weeks

walllable 06-Aug-21 08:18 AM

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case, I remember there being something in Alyx's developer commentary about doing some frame averaging stuff and sampling from some part in the controller that updates more than once per frame to get data for throwing stuff

https://youtu.be/5Aled4gwsjA?list=PLRDhcp_8c7uBSFCvYZ_60578yI5SqpHPW&t=109 (edited)

2kliksphilip

HLA Developer Commentary - Chapter 4 - Superweapon

Seemed to work out pretty well in the end, because throwing feels really good in Alyx

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:19 AM

If I make any throwing shit I'll probably end up tweaking my own implementation of it

But it's nice to have as a fallback if I can't figure it out

walllable 06-Aug-21 08:20 AM

Definitely

Especially when it's something that seems as robust and nice-feeling as Alyx's implementation

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:36 AM

@garry you should be able to use the rendermodel API to grab the "modelnumber" string, which is actually the model name

idk if this helps but https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr/blob/master/headers/openvr.h#L339

That one

Tracking system name and render model name are maybe less relevant

Any Unity game that does controller-specific shit uses that property string to differentiate controllers

garry 06-Aug-21 08:46 AM

head/hand tracking should be with you in 5 mins

1

gonna find out why my lawnmower stopped mowing then will add buttons

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:47 AM

Once you've got buttons I'll get to work on setting up a bunch of bindings

I'm not gonna test all of em but I've got support for all the major things in Climbey so I can just reference that json to write some for S&Box

The Vive Cosmos and therefore Focus 3 can actually 1:1 use identical bindings as Touch controllers, but they still need their own separate json

Erin 06-Aug-21 08:54 AM

This issue https://github.com/Facepunch/sbox-issues/issues/605 about WorldPanels not rendering in VR, is this just specific to VR? I know somebody had issues with them rendering in non vr last night, I can't seem to get them to render either, but then again I might be doing something wrong, but the one last night was working before then after an update it stopped working

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 08:57 AM

Btw @garry how does one override animated bone positions? Using SetBoneTransform in Simulate doesn't seem to do it

I figure it's because the animation is updated after simulate or something but I'm not sure

garry 06-Aug-21 09:08 AM

there's code for that in engine, I'm gonna expose them

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 09:08 AM

For overriding bone positions?

Trying to do this https://puu.sh/I1V6Y/f85c1b0bd6.png

Since b_vr makes the hands use those IK targets

garry 06-Aug-21 09:11 AM

I dunno if that's the right way to do that

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 09:11 AM

I'm just trying to get basic arm IK working without adjusting the animgraph myself

garry 06-Aug-21 09:12 AM

I think IK_targets are anim params

I haven't messed with it, so I need to look into it further

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 09:12 AM

Sort of, from what I can see in the animgraph the arms are set to override the target to those bones

Max set this up yesterday

garry 06-Aug-21 09:13 AM

try using SetAnimVector

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 09:13 AM

So if I can move those bones the arms should move

Afaik there's no parameters set up for that, I got that working yesterday with changes to the animgraph but then I ran into the issue of the hands not getting their rotation set

And if the override target is a bone it should account for rotations of that bone too, which is nicer? I think?

https://puu.sh/I1Vav/6b0abb7289.png

garry 06-Aug-21 09:15 AM

let me take a look

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 09:15 AM

That's how it sets it currently

If I change "target source" to a custom parameter instead it obviously works but the hands will not rotate, and I can't override that rotation because I can't rotate animated bones in Simulate

https://puu.sh/I1Vb8/e57667dcc3.png

That's where the VR IK arm shit lives

But, those IK target bones are animated and I can't set their position/rotation if they are, which actually seems like a pretty annoying limitation even outside this usecase

So I figured maybe there's like an update that happens after the animation is set

Which is where I would be able to override it

garry 06-Aug-21 09:18 AM

don't panic, we haven't set anything up like that yet

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 09:18 AM

Unity allows for that in LateUpdate iirc

garry 06-Aug-21 09:18 AM

we're not purposely stopping you from fucking with bones

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 09:18 AM

No I figured, I just am running into it now hah

But yeah, I could make it use a vector parameter and get it "working" though it'd have the wrists look completely broken given that it's just a position vector with no rotation applied

walllable 06-Aug-21 09:22 AM

Will some code from Alyx be ported to C# for VR creators to use as a baseline/starting point? For example, the work they put into VR doors, fingers that dynamically conform to surfaces and grabbable objects, collisions with surfaces causing rather granular haptic feedback, stuff like that? I think it'd be good to have this stuff as a baseline because getting that stuff to feel good can be a lot harder than it looks, and Valve's already got it figured out (edited)

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 09:25 AM

Here's what I mean if I just use vector parameters, though perhaps the animgraph could also just have a quaternion parameter twisting the hands into the controller's rotation after that IK action idk

https://puu.sh/I1Vfs/ef6ead2c43.mp4

garry 06-Aug-21 09:27 AM

letme take a look at shit

there's BoneTransformOverride stuff in engine

I just want to figure out a better way than setting it in every frame like in Unity

needs extra thought because I think we'd want them to network from server to client too

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 09:34 AM

https://puu.sh/I1Vl0/3f80d104df.mp4

Got ducking in, sorta

Weird fuckin inch multiplication

Just assumes Terry is like 1.8 meters tall though which makes short people crouch automatically lmao

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 09:49 AM

Got that classic mouse1-powered VR climbing

https://puu.sh/I1Vuq/8ee7a99f03.mp4

Discord does not want to embed anything for me today

Clearly need to change from a raycast to like a spherecast or something

Sweating my ass off just from that tiny climb though fuckin christ it's too warm for VR right now

Atlas 06-Aug-21 09:59 AM

loving the progress so far, been waiting to see this stuff!

ShadowBrain

Sweating my ass off just from that tiny climb though fuckin christ it's too warm for VR right now

walllable 06-Aug-21 10:51 AM

I'd be open to helping you test shit out

Are VR inputs in yet or is it still just position (edited)

Ryhon 06-Aug-21 10:52 AM

They are

Ryhon

They are

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 10:52 AM

They aren't*

Ryhon 06-Aug-21 10:52 AM

Or at least the classes are

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 10:52 AM

It's just position/rotation atm

The classes are unfinished, he still needs to decide the full action set

Daniel 06-Aug-21 10:53 AM

Gesture based movement time

Hip thrust movement

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 10:53 AM

If VR inputs were in I wouldn't have used the dumb mouse 1 click

walllable 06-Aug-21 10:53 AM

Ahh, true

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 10:53 AM

Climbing would be entirely natural and I wouldn't have to sit at my keyboard to walk around

Not sure how to handle character facing direction yet either since that's all mouse bound still

Reckon the base character controller needs to get VR support

Which I could do myself or I could wait for Garry to update it :p

Daniel 06-Aug-21 10:55 AM

Movement but you have to pull yourself along

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 10:55 AM

Ya, been done to death

But I guess not inside S&Box

walllable 06-Aug-21 10:55 AM

If input wasn't a couple hours away I'd suggest using a program to bind mouse/keyboard buttons to VR controllers as a stopgap

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 10:55 AM

Yeah nah lmao

Not that desperate

Making dinner right now anyway

walllable 06-Aug-21 10:57 AM

Fair enough

ShadowBrain

https://puu.sh/I1Vfs/ef6ead2c43.mp4

MaxLebled 06-Aug-21 12:17 PM

nice, is this using the IK stuff I put in yesterday?

garry 06-Aug-21 12:18 PM

looks like with the IK stuff we need quaternion parameters

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/95c69f53-aceb-43ef-ac1f-f835be5b55a1.png

so we can use parameters instead of the bone/attachments

MaxLebled 06-Aug-21 12:19 PM

ohhh I hadn't thought about using those

that's cool

garry 06-Aug-21 12:19 PM

which we can't change before/during the animgraph

MaxLebled 06-Aug-21 12:19 PM

would be cleaner than somehow trying to insert a bone override DURING the graph, yeah

garry 06-Aug-21 12:19 PM

let me make sure I added those so we can set them from code

I'd like to make it from code so you can call something like SetAnimParam( "right_hand_ik", Entity.Transform ); Then on the backend it would actually call SetAnimParam( "right_hand_ik.position", transform.position ), SetAnimParam( "right_hand_ik.rotation", transform.rotation )

save making multiple calls for stuff like this

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 12:23 PM

Yeah would be good

MaxLebled

nice, is this using the IK stuff I put in yesterday?

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 12:24 PM

Yeah so no, I changed it to be a vector parameter, which is why the rotation didn't really work

But if it's got both position and rotation that shit would be perfect

Although I totally expect the VR controller zero to be off from where you'd want a hand t obe

So it'd need to be offset in code

garry 06-Aug-21 12:25 PM

alright https://files.facepunch.com/garry/ab3c46ea-dda8-4681-948e-a13228eb44aa.png

can you make the ik params have .position and .rotation on the end @MaxLebled

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 12:25 PM

But at least Valve made it so all VR controllers are offset to have their handles set similarly which means you only have to figure out that offset once

Were quaternion parameters not implemented yet before this?

garry

can you make the ik params have .position and .rotation on the end @MaxLebled

MaxLebled 06-Aug-21 12:30 PM

will do

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 12:31 PM

So then the code would be SetAnimTransform("left_hand_ik", Input.VR.LeftHand.Transform); or something right

And the parameters will just be left_hand_ik.position and rotation

(Though I'd still need to figure out the offset for the hand position)

walllable

Will some code from Alyx be ported to C# for VR creators to use as a baseline/starting point? For example, the work they put into VR doors, fingers that dynamically conform to surfaces and grabbable objects, collisions with surfaces causing rather granular haptic feedback, stuff like that? I think it'd be good to have this stuff as a baseline because getting that stuff to feel good can be a lot harder than it looks, and Valve's already got it figured out (edited)

walllable 06-Aug-21 12:54 PM

Wanted to bring this up and ask about it again since more important stuff was being talked about at the time I think @garry

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 01:07 PM

fingers that dynamically conform to surfaces and grabbable objects

don't think this is dynamic

at least the grabbable part, that's literally just a custom handpose for each grabbable

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 01:09 PM

Yeah I don't think it's as dynamic overall as you think

Their door work would be nice to have though

garry 06-Aug-21 01:33 PM

I think it's a modeldoc node

MaxLebled 06-Aug-21 01:56 PM

ok they're in

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 03:17 PM

Not in the build yet tho

Ryhon 06-Aug-21 03:18 PM

I think occlusion culling is too much when using VR

Might be using the screen's FOV instead of the eye FOV

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 03:22 PM

It's using the screen's resolution too

Definitely needs tweaks

walllable 06-Aug-21 04:07 PM

Wonderif the culling would be fixed if I launch the game at the resolution SteamVR would set it at

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 04:42 PM

Nah it's not resolution doing the culling

It's what the game's camera fov is set to I think

walllable 06-Aug-21 04:43 PM

So if I set the game to be more square-ish in aspect ratio, would that help it out?

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 04:43 PM

Which you could set in your gamemode but you'd need SteamVR API to read off the FOV which isn't as nice as it just automatically setting it based on your headset

walllable 06-Aug-21 04:43 PM

Also I think now that something got pushed to sbox instead of sbox-game the animgraph ik stuff should be in now

wait, no nevermind

I read the commit channel wrong

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 04:47 PM

Gotta check the build log channel and compare it to the commit log

I just look at the times

walllable 06-Aug-21 04:47 PM

Yeah

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 04:47 PM

To figure out what's in the steam build

walllable 06-Aug-21 04:47 PM

usually when something's pushed to sbox/master it'll be in the steam version within a few minutes

if it's pushed to sbox-game/master it won't be

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 04:47 PM

But I think they are in now given that the last build was a couple mins ago

walllable 06-Aug-21 04:48 PM

Ah yeah

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 04:50 PM

Looks like rotation is working but position isn't

walllable 06-Aug-21 04:51 PM

Strange

Wasn't position working earlier? Or are you talking about transferring the HMD's position with the rest of the body?

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 04:51 PM

Yeah but this is using the new method

I'm guessing there's some shit wrong with worldspace vs model space

BlockBuilder57 06-Aug-21 04:54 PM

has anyone discovered a good way to get head pos in universe-space?

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 04:54 PM

Well yeah. Input.VR.Head.Transform.Position + Position

You just add the pawn's position to it

BlockBuilder57 06-Aug-21 04:55 PM

the head isn't local though for me

Head.Transform is where it is in the engine

and when I'm trying to update the anchor to fight back against that I enter seziure town

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 04:56 PM

Yeah actually I just got a hand transform.position and it returned a worldspace one

Had to remove the pawn's position from it to get local

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@garry might be an issue with the hand/head transform being worldspace instead of local in terms of position returning

walllable 06-Aug-21 04:57 PM

I have a feeling he's probably done for the day, I think it's almost 10 PM over there

BlockBuilder57 06-Aug-21 04:57 PM

oh, damn it, had those the wrong way round lol

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 04:57 PM

Yeah, it's 11 here

I'm probably not gonna do much mroe experimenting

BlockBuilder57 06-Aug-21 04:58 PM

now we're good, thanks

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 04:58 PM

But I've got hands "Working" even if they're kind of off

walllable 06-Aug-21 04:58 PM

Looking forward to controller inputs on Monday (probably)

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:00 PM

Looks like the hands rotate incorrectly

PRobably a bone-space conversion required there

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:14 PM

Looks like weirdly the rotation returned from the hands is worldspace instead of localspace, and that's a lot more annoying to fix

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:27 PM

Ok after much trial and error

https://puu.sh/I20Pw/65bd4b2b2e.mp4

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:27 PM

Ooh nice

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:28 PM

None of the coordinate directions made any sense to me so I was just tweaking numbers and hitting save to see what changed

https://i.imgur.com/J9ZUTm6.png

Reckon this'll always require tweaking given that the VR hand transforms can basically never exactly be used by the bone's coordinate/position

So "SetAnimTransform" is a hopeful dream implementation that won't get used :p

I made separate variables for left and right hand rotation offsets expecting them to require inverse numbers at some point but it turned out not to be the case

Position did though

BlockBuilder57 06-Aug-21 05:33 PM

very nice!

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:33 PM

Once we get access to finger curl data I'll try figuring out how to hook that up though it'll probably just be more animgraph updates you can feed those into

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:34 PM

garry did say he wanted to add some niceities like grab pos and stuff

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:35 PM

Also SetAnimTransform assumes worldspace coordinates only, should probably have a boolean or enum or something for what space it should fill out

Because the IK stuff is set to modelspace

But given the need for position/rotation tweaking I couldn't use SetAnimTransform anyway

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:38 PM

what's the usual sort of deal for like

aligning hands to vr

dev wise

i had always sort of assumed steamvr offered vendors a field or something to transform a controller's pose into something that you could stick onto a model

to make it align better

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:39 PM

In Unity I'd just position the hands based on the controller model in the editor

But I beleive there's pose attachments for handles

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:39 PM

so it's just trial and error and every game can do it differently?

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:39 PM

It's just a little inconsistent between controllers if it's even implemented

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:39 PM

ah

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:39 PM

So people tend not to use it

And manually set their shit up

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:39 PM

so what you basically have to own every hmd to reliably make a vr game?

or at the very least one from each vendor

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:40 PM

But to counteract that Valve offsets controller models to fit handle positions, they've been doing this since the originla Vive wands, which they all line the controller zero's up with to match those handles

So if you've done it for one controller, it'll roughly match other controllers

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:40 PM

ah

i always assumed things like getting a gun's sights to line up with the barrel and shoot pos would be a bit annoying

BlockBuilder57 06-Aug-21 05:41 PM

what in the hell did I do...

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:41 PM

And the WMR controllers were implemented by Microsoft, they initially had their zero position set way differently and I fought Microsoft to correct it, which they did right before the drivers went out of beta

BlockBuilder57 06-Aug-21 05:41 PM

it's like... body leaning driven noclip

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:41 PM

vomitoreum

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:42 PM

Slightly relevant, https://www.roadtovr.com/valve-standalone-vr-headset-steam-deck/

Asked About Standalone VR Headset, Valve Says Steam Deck Hardware is ‘very relevant to our future plans’

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:42 PM

oh fuck

i would cough up $1000 for index 2

no bullshit

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:43 PM

here's the full quote

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:43 PM

esp if it had eye tracking

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:43 PM

from a verge article about the steam deck I think (edited)

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:44 PM

I would cough up 2000 if it'd run all my PCVR content in a standalone package

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:44 PM

i just want wireless

i don't really need it to be truly standalone

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:44 PM

Steamdeck is a full PC

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:44 PM

tho running fucking pc games off a standalone vr headset would be bonkers

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:44 PM

If that hardware got into a standalone it'd be way more than wireless

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:44 PM

I've heard they're planning on doing weird split rendering stuff between the PC and the SOC they'd have on the headset

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:44 PM

yeah but they already sorta said pcvr isn't really viable on the deck hardware, it'd have to be more than that

ign asked if you could wire it up for vr and they sort of gave a half answer of like "yeah but it wouldn't be great"

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:45 PM

I wonder how much FSR would help

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:45 PM

Yeah because you'd tether a wire to a 600 gram device

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:45 PM

fsr could be a big deal

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:45 PM

You're gonna pull that shit off the dock in no time

Overall experience is sub-optimal

Which is why they gotta put it directly in the headset

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:46 PM

no i think they just meant the hardware is not up to snuff for the average pcvr game

it would be a bit dumb for them to put out an index 2 with the same specs as the deck and then it doesn't even run valve's own vr game, hl:a (edited)

fsr would smooth out the edges though, i've heard that openvr dll hack that shoves in fsr makes things run a bit better

but, you know, eye tracking. foveated rendering.

:)

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:48 PM

it doesn't do too great with text in my experience from playing it in climbey, but other than that I didn't really notice much of a difference while playing

Didn't test it in other games though (edited)

UselessGhost

it would be a bit dumb for them to put out an index 2 with the same specs as the deck and then it doesn't even run valve's own vr game, hl:a (edited)

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:48 PM

They'd probably put in FFR and make an ultra low spec mode for HLA

They'd get it running for sure

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:49 PM

i think they'd be silly to not do true foveated rendering at this point

shove some eye trackers in there

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:49 PM

Definitely gonna go over 1k though

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:49 PM

that's fine i can deal

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:49 PM

I wonder how shit it'd look/if they would put any decent effort into making the ultra-low mode look like an older game rather than shitty-looking new one

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:49 PM

it just starts up hl2

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:50 PM

lol

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:50 PM

valve's issue rn is i don't like

know what their endgame is here

vr wise

like they need to fight the quest 2

i think a smart approach might be to have tiers

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:51 PM

They don't seem to like showing their cards ever

So no one really knows wtf they're doing

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:51 PM

buy the Index Pro™️ and get eye tracking, higher res screens, it sucks your dick off occasionally, idk

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:52 PM

unless you look at patents and their github and such and try to fill in the missing pieces

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:52 PM

or you could just get the Index Lite™️ and it's some basic bitch quest 2 competitor

i don't see valve as the sort of company to abandon their primary user base of vr users as it is now, which is to say, dumbasses like me who spent too much money on it

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:52 PM

A part of me kinda doubts they're gonna do multiple tiers considering their whole thing is putting out the best well-rounded thing that VR hardware can offer

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:52 PM

but i also just do not see the value in making another luxury headset alone without anything to shake it up

i could see them maybe just

whole ass making a vr pc that attaches onto the headset

sell the headset and the standalone pack separately?

but at that point like you're confusing your intended market a bit

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:53 PM

Yeah I think I saw a patent or two about that

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:54 PM

it's very confusing to an outsider to be like, i want this valve headset but do i buy the thing that has the big pc tumor on it or do i get the cheaper version that doesn't have that and what's the diff and etc etc etc, it'd be a bit ridiculous next to the quest 2's proposition of "buy me and you can play vr games"

oh and also you can plug me into a pc and play all those pcvr games too but that's not important

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:55 PM

Everything is ridiculous next to the Quest 2's proposition

It's why Facebook is cancer

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:55 PM

they got a good product

even i occasionally glance at my quest 2 despite having the index fully setup rn

and i'm not one to usually take that compromise of convenience, but like

fuck the quest 2 is really nice

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:55 PM

Ya I do the same with my Focus 3

I'm still waiting for them to fix up the image quality on streaming a bit and to start selling extra batteries though

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:56 PM

i wish i had that experience with my index, the feeling a bit that i can just throw it on, cause right now it's very much not that

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:56 PM

idk my index is still pretty much that

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:56 PM

also eye tracking please valve i want eye tracking so bad i will buy a headset solely for eye tracking

️

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:57 PM

Once you've fired up SteamVR once and have it powered on any subsequent SteamVR starts are instant and everything just works for me

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:57 PM

i don't feel comfortable running my base stations running

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:57 PM

First time is finnicky though

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:57 PM

so i sleep em

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:57 PM

Ah

That's a hassle

I've had mine running since I got them

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:57 PM

plus the controllers being less pick up and start

WITH ALL OF THAT SAID the quest 2's audio is such ass that i still use the index because of that

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:58 PM

I wish valve sold index headphones separately, I'd love to have 'em on my vive as a stopgap until I get a better headset

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:58 PM

they're very very good

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 05:59 PM

There's a Quest 2 kit that adds similar drivers to the Index's I think

walllable 06-Aug-21 05:59 PM

If they do add eye tracking I hope they have either a mouth tracker as well or allow you to add a mouth tracker yourself, that'd be really neat for social VR shit like vrchat

Or hell even s&box I suppose

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 05:59 PM

i could see them just letting htc swooce up the prothusiast vr market that would pay more for that sor tof thing

there's probably some bracket someone's made on thingiverse that would adapt the vive face tracker to index

i know some people just double sided tape it but i don't like that idea really

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 06:02 PM

I've got a face tracker

Setting it up to work is a huge fuckin hassle

Just like from a developer perspective

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 06:02 PM

yeah all of the htc proprietary apis seem not friendly (edited)

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 06:02 PM

The amount of fidelity is great, but also a huge fuckin implementation burden in terms of art

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 06:03 PM

i just think it would be fun in social games like vrc

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 06:03 PM

And you're having to run HTC's software in the background

I'm glad HTC sent it to me because it is definitely not worth 135 bucks

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 06:03 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7ChnfY6TVI warning furry but this video sorta sold me on it

June

Lip syncing in NeosVR with the Vive Lip Module [with module PoV]

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 06:04 PM

Yeah

It supports like 38 blendshapes

I made that by hand once and holy shit is it a lot of work, though a lot of people were yelling about Blender having an automatic generated thing for that but idk blender

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 06:05 PM

i wager someone's probably ducktaped an iphone and used facekit or whatever it is already to accomplish this same thing

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 06:05 PM

https://twitter.com/TheShadowBrain/status/1389915899373752322

It's a video but embed doesn't play it

walllable 06-Aug-21 06:06 PM

try fxtwitter.com instead

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 06:06 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV5SU6t1WvI reminds me of this video

Joker's Meme Kitchen

19 dollar fortnite card among us

ShadowBrain 06-Aug-21 06:06 PM

Anyway that was just my rough attempt at doing lips for the tracker and it took me hours for that not-amazing result

And then after that if I was to actually implement it in my game I'd have to sync up all those blendshapes through the network

Which is a bunch of extra data

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 06:07 PM

honestly it's less the face tracker more the eye tracking i want so it's unfortunate that you know

that's thte thing you sort of can't just get on the index

i think having eyes as a secret directional input would be kinda cool

that and i want to be a gay bitch in vrchat and wink at people

UselessGhost 06-Aug-21 06:24 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/ovo717/1000_hz_markerless_insideout_tracking_for_index_2/ oh interesting

r/ValveIndex - 1000 Hz Markerless Inside-Out Tracking for Index 2 R...

428 votes and 219 comments so far on Reddit

BlockBuilder57 06-Aug-21 08:56 PM

forgot to share this here, right now this is the best way I've found to get tracking universe (local) relative stuffs:

Vector3 relativeHeadPos = VR.Anchor.PointToLocal(Input.VR.Head.Position); Rotation relativeHeadRot = VR.Anchor.RotationToLocal(Input.VR.Head.Rotation); Transform offset = new Transform(relativeHeadPos, relativeHeadRot);

rinse and repeat for each hand if need be (edited)

walllable

unless you look at patents and their github and such and try to fill in the missing pieces

SadlyItsBradley 06-Aug-21 09:01 PM

only idiots would waste their time doing that

walllable 06-Aug-21 09:01 PM

lol ikr

I feel like we should pin a message with some notes about different controllers that people should keep in mind when making VR gamemodes', especially considering there's no easy way to do per-gamemode rebinding by the user yet

For example... -It's probably not a good idea to have Index users click in their thumbsticks buttons, since (From what I've heard) that can accelerate the onset of stick drift -Vive wands' grip button can be rather fatiguing to hold for long periods of time, consider making things you'd normally make 'hold' on other controllers (like touch or wmr) a toggle instead on the vive -If configuring movement for Vive touchpads, allow the movement to still move them by letting them just press the button, and unpressing it shortly after while they keep their thumb touching it, rather than requiring it that they hold it down, since that can also help with ergonomics (edited)

There's not really much else that comes to mind though

Now that I think about it maybe that could be part of a wiki article at some point

BlockBuilder57 06-Aug-21 09:14 PM

that can accelerate the onset of stick drift

can confirm, melted my left controller thanks to boneworks (edited)

walllable 06-Aug-21 09:15 PM

Holding melee weapons was also rather tiring in Boneworks as well with vive wands

And I got the touchpad thing from VRC's implementation of movement on Vive wands, which I especially appreciated when my touchpad's button didn't click in on some areas anymore

Meant if I wanted to move backwards or so the side I could just tap the center, and move my thumb towards the bottom of the touchpad

instead of having to keep it physically pressed down, which I couldn't do

Plaonder 06-Aug-21 09:22 PM

If only I had two working index controllers right now

walllable 06-Aug-21 09:22 PM

Fun fact, if you're feeling ballsy you can mix and match different controller types if you're using lighthouse 1.0

I've sometimes used a vive wand and an index controller at the same time, and it's worked surprisingly often

garry 07-Aug-21 02:38 AM

@ShadowBrain why do you want the controller positions in pawn local space?

Is it because you think it's hard to covert to local space or is there another reason

walllable 07-Aug-21 02:52 AM

I was about to say "wow, you're up early" and then realized it's way later than I thought it was

garry

Is it because you think it's hard to covert to local space or is there another reason

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 03:10 AM

I don't really care but generally controller position is in local space to the tracking center, and the IK parameters are in local space too

But it's alright, since the SetAnimTransform is useless for setting the hands to the controller poses anyway given the needed position and rotation adjustments

garry 07-Aug-21 03:11 AM

It's easy

Entity.Transform.ToLocal

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 03:11 AM

I guess I'm just used to the hands being children of the tracking space, it's a thing I needed to wrap my head around and it was late so I got frustrated :p

Figured it out anyway though

walllable

For example... -It's probably not a good idea to have Index users click in their thumbsticks buttons, since (From what I've heard) that can accelerate the onset of stick drift -Vive wands' grip button can be rather fatiguing to hold for long periods of time, consider making things you'd normally make 'hold' on other controllers (like touch or wmr) a toggle instead on the vive -If configuring movement for Vive touchpads, allow the movement to still move them by letting them just press the button, and unpressing it shortly after while they keep their thumb touching it, rather than requiring it that they hold it down, since that can also help with ergonomics (edited)

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 03:15 AM

I've been clicking my index joysticks for months and they're fine

But I guess the earlier batches break down faster because of it ye

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:16 AM

Fair enough, I suppose. Maybe I'm confusing it with the switch? Is that a thing that happened with the joycons?

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 03:16 AM

No no, it is a thing, it's just that they fixed it and a lot of people probably didn't switch over yet

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:17 AM

Ah gotcha

I'm also out of warranty on my knuckles so I don't wanan risk starting to click the sticks in, they start drifting, and then I'm screwed or something

Especially when they're as expensive as they are

Plaonder 07-Aug-21 03:17 AM

Well it is an issue on the switch

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:18 AM

The drifting is yeah

Plaonder 07-Aug-21 03:18 AM

The whole clicking thing

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:18 AM

I was moreso asking about clicking sticks accelerating the onset of drift

Ah gotcha

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 03:18 AM

Joystick click for jumping is very natural for all other controllers, so I don't know if people will want to figure out alternate jump buttons specifically for index

Plaonder 07-Aug-21 03:19 AM

I wonder how the joystick works and if you could employ a similar solution they found for the switch

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:19 AM

I've personally never liked clicking joysticks anyway, so... Maybe I'll just do a custom bind thing where I squeeze at a kinda normal strength for a regular grip button, then squeeze extra hard for joystick click or something

I'll figure it out when the time comes

Plaonder

I wonder how the joystick works and if you could employ a similar solution they found for the switch

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 03:20 AM

Nope. Index's issue is potentiometer interfaces getting worn out.

Plaonder 07-Aug-21 03:20 AM

Gotcha

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 03:21 AM

It's a pretty basic issue really that happens because the joystick inset flat metal pegs into potentiometer's plastic holes to catch on to the joystick's rotation

The plastic hole gets widened from use, and clicking moves the metal peg just enough to worsen the effect quicker

So joystick drift is those potentiometers not catching the joystick pegs well enough anymore making them get "stuck"

Plaonder 07-Aug-21 03:23 AM

Ahh

Good to know

I really need to get my controller fixed

Because uh

It fried this USB C cable

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:24 AM

Oof

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 03:24 AM

Neat

Didn't burn your house down, that's a win

Plaonder 07-Aug-21 03:24 AM

Yeah

Did start smoking though which was cool

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:25 AM

let the magic smoke out

Plaonder 07-Aug-21 03:25 AM

And let the magic of the controller go away?

No!

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:26 AM

the magic valve pixie dust

That sucks though, I hope you can get it RMAd soon

Plaonder 07-Aug-21 03:28 AM

Yea thanks

Kinda hard to play any standing VR games anyway since I bruised my tailbone

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:29 AM

Aw damn

Plaonder 07-Aug-21 03:29 AM

My HMD Odyssey will do for now

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:30 AM

Hope someone makes a gravity glove template thing or something for people to copy, I imagine that could make seated play a lot easier

won't have to bend down to grab stuff

Plaonder 07-Aug-21 03:30 AM

Oh yeah

Whenever I work on a VR game I always think to myself “so how am I gonna pull off a force grab system”

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 03:31 AM

It's not thaaaat hard

I've done a basic approximation of it in Unity before

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:32 AM

I imagine getting it to the level of polish and general niceness that Valve did might take a decent amount of effort though

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 03:33 AM

Perhaps, but even Valve's system isn't flawless and might not work for all games

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:33 AM

That's true

Even still I think it'd be nice to have as a template so people don't have to reinvent the wheel every time they want to implement something like it

Plaonder 07-Aug-21 03:34 AM

Can’t just throw it in to any game and not say it’s the gravity gloves

walllable 07-Aug-21 03:36 AM

Could be nice in particular for multiplayer gamemodes that are a bit more focused on the social aspect rather than doing anything particularly unique and just wanna have it for convenience

I know there's been a bunch of times where I've wished I had gravgloves in vrchat

So I can grab a beer bottle from across the room and chuck it at someone or something

CEO of Eggs 07-Aug-21 03:58 AM

@ShadowBrain is that amogus

the shadow explains it all

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 03:59 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grd-K33tOSM

Leonz

Among Us Drip Theme Song Original (Among Us Trap Remix / Amogus Mem...

walllable 07-Aug-21 04:00 AM

lmao

ShadowBrain

https://puu.sh/I20Pw/65bd4b2b2e.mp4

MaxLebled 07-Aug-21 05:27 AM

Congrats! I guess now all you need to do to get the fundamentals covered is move the whole character's position depending on where the HMD is

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 05:32 AM

Yup, and move the head's rotation to match

Plus I'd really like that head body group thing that doesn't leave a massive hole where the head was

Would be nice to have a chest group that closes off the hands too in case people want to use just the hands, though that'd probably also require removing IK so the hand position isn't constrained by Terry's arm length

Head movement is a tricky problem too because you gotta move terry with the head but the center of your room follows Terry's center ground position

Have to decouple the two without making you not move if you do movement input

garry 07-Aug-21 05:55 AM

need to make the player not have a body and make a new entity for the body, which is a child of the player object I think

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 05:56 AM

Yeah so Terry is just a puppet that follows you inside your playspace, and the playspace has to govern movement

garry 07-Aug-21 05:56 AM

I think we could just shrink the neck bone to 0 for the head hole

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 05:56 AM

Can we even do that given overriding animated bones is not a thing yet

garry 07-Aug-21 05:57 AM

you can kind of override the bones.. but scale isn't networked

anim.SetBone( "neck_0", tx );

would have to call that clientside I think for it to work with scale

that'll override, but the bone only gets replaced after animation

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 05:58 AM

So I guess the player's pawn needs to be the playspace zero object then right (edited)

I haven't messed with any pawn stuff yet but from what I understand whatever you're controlling has to be the pawn

This might be a bit over my head with my current knowledge

garry 07-Aug-21 06:02 AM

no, you can set the anchor point clientside to whatever you want

Vr.Achor

it's set automatically in the PostCameraSetup

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/c3a4aa5c-2ffd-4618-ab94-353b505b0ac5.png

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:03 AM

Hm so I need to make a new pawn object that handles movement, set the anchor to be that object, parent terry to it

The concept of a VR anchor that isn't an actual object in the world is still a little weird to me

garry 07-Aug-21 06:04 AM

I was thinking the other way around, you'd make a new entity that is just the model and do whatever you want with it

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:05 AM

But then how would you make the anchor follow it while it's being driven by things inside the anchor, like the head/hands

It'd cause a feedback loop

garry 07-Aug-21 06:05 AM

the anchor would follow your pawn

I already said this but you can set the anchor to any point you want

it doesn't have to be an object, doesn't have to be an entity, doesn't have to be a pawn

the anchor is just you saying this is the center of the player's world in the game world

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:08 AM

Right so, in practice, I need to make a VR player class? Right? And set that to be the pawn, then add another object to it that's a terry puppet, and parent it to the VR player entity, so I can set terry to follow the headset/hands.

From there I'd need to figure out how to handle movement on the VR player class without using the regular walkcontroller

Because the walkcontroller does all its checks assuming the center of the object is where you are, which is not the case for VR stuff

Need a VR walk controller you can feed the headset data into for offset purposes

Obviously I could also just have separate VR/NonVR logic in the same playerclass (edited)

NonVR would set Terry up like it usually does, VR would spawn an extra entity

And set the walkcontroller to be a VR one with headset offsets accounted for (edited)

The extra entity, call it TerryVRPuppet or something, would also have to report back any hit registry stuff to the player class

For shooty games anyway, my gamemode doesn't have to deal with any of that currently

No idea if this is all sound logic or the best way to do things but at the very least it should work

Which is generally how I do things

garry 07-Aug-21 06:19 AM

I think it needs a bit of trial and error, I can see that it's possibly going to fuck us with room scale movement

since you'd be offset from the anchor

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:19 AM

Exactly

That's the whole thing I'm worried about hah

garry 07-Aug-21 06:19 AM

I wonder if that's even a worry though, if the center of the room is even relevant

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:19 AM

Reminiscent of early Skyrim VR where all damage collision and targeting was done in the center of your room

garry 07-Aug-21 06:20 AM

do we just put the player object where the head is

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:20 AM

That's seated space I think

SteamVR has standing/roomscale and seated space VR

Seated puts the zero point at the head

And you can recenter it where ever you like

garry 07-Aug-21 06:20 AM

I mean if you're 2 meters to the left of your room origin, what does it matter if we put the player object 2 meters to the left too

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:21 AM

Yeah I mean that's not the problem I suppose

It's when you start moving around and your player object is trying to follow your head offset while you're also using a joystick to walk (edited)

It's why my plan was to decouple graphics from mechanics a bit so that part is at least taken care of

garry 07-Aug-21 06:23 AM

how is this handled in other games, they have the anchor as an object and you have to do all the bullshitting with it right

I don't like the idea of the developer having to think about that stuff

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:24 AM

Yeah so in Climbey the actual player gameobject is the anchor, and I apply all my movement on it, there's objects inside it for head/hands that I parented shit to

garry 07-Aug-21 06:25 AM

it should really be like this in a tick - pawn is here, player head is here, move pawn to player head if possible

everything else we should take care of

you should obviously be able to get the origin and how far away the player is from it

but we should do everything possible to make it not be something that developers think about

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:26 AM

Hah, trying to set the neck bone to zero scale in simulate but clearly animation framerate runs at a different pace

https://puu.sh/I28tF/04d392d959.mp4

garry 07-Aug-21 06:26 AM

my process for this is to usually do it in a shitty way, and put all the shitty repetitive code addon side, then try to eliminate steps until the addon code is just deviations

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:27 AM

Sounds sensible

garry 07-Aug-21 06:27 AM

oh I think that's because setbones aren't predicted/clientside

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:28 AM

I feel like having a bodygroup that hides the head neatly gives a nicer result though

Also gives Max some control over what it actually looks like instead of just stretching whatever neck texture there was into oblivion

garry 07-Aug-21 06:29 AM

something to be aware of is the bodygroups are mainly for clothing to be able to turn the head off if a clothing item is replacing it etc

so when you come to add clothes you'll have to deal with those too if you're not just 0 scaling

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:29 AM

Sure that's their base function but what's the harm in making it more useful

garry 07-Aug-21 06:30 AM

the head just turns that mesh off

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:30 AM

I feel like sometimes you'd want those clothes showing anyway

garry 07-Aug-21 06:30 AM

if you add a helmet it'll cover the face etc

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:30 AM

Not if the VR headset is positioned at the eyes

But there's HideInFirstPerson boolean to take care of that anyway

garry 07-Aug-21 06:32 AM

true

I thought most people would go with hands only in first person

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:33 AM

Yeah that's another issue actually, if you use IK it limits how far your hands can even move based on the arm length of Terry

So for hands-only you'd want to not use IK I think?

garry 07-Aug-21 06:34 AM

yeah

would actions/default/in/HandCurl be that grip trigger

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:35 AM

I'm not sure tbh, sounds like maybe they made a separate action that overrides all finger tracking based curls

Uhh real quick, how do I print to the console? I'm trying to debug some shit but I've always just used the overlay debug stuff, which doesn't work in VR

Console.WriteLine doesn't work

garry 07-Aug-21 06:39 AM

Log.Info

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:41 AM

Awesome, thanks

It's interesting how crouching kind of bottoms out at some point, not sure how I'd even deal with that without it looking deformed, I guess it'd need to switch to proning or something

https://puu.sh/I28Bb/c8fa3ddf44.mp4

I also noticed I could barely walk last night turns out I've been doing squats testing the crouching shit

garry 07-Aug-21 06:46 AM

that's the #1 reason I never properly played with VR

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 06:47 AM

Haha, I've mostly gotten used to it for like 2-3 hour sessions but when you're devving you repeat shit a lot

I made a card throwing golf game once

Arm was destroyed

Definitely not a thing you could do without VR and make it actually feel good though

Was one of my early prototypes when I first got knuckles controllers

I've gotten this far, here's the code snippet of what that video has going on

2021-08-07_12-52-13.txt

1.07 KB

jeez can't even render the file preview

https://puu.sh/I28Fa/676a1612da.txt

His hands feel absolutely massive though

I think I'd need like a 1.3-1.6x scale to make it feel like non-hulk-glove hands

But then the rest of the body proportions make no sense and my crotch ends up in his upper chest

idk if it'd make sense to bake the offsets into the hands with extra bones or not but the default rotation/position made no sense at all

Would need a set of bones at those offsets from the IK targets, then parent the IK targets to those bones (edited)

Pretty tricky

And some people might end up preferring different rotations/positions

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:06 AM

But then again, it would feed into making it easier to support VR, not having to think about hand offset positions would be a nicer experience than trial and error adjusting them

garry 07-Aug-21 07:19 AM

you're doing a lot of weird maths there

if you get the left hand like this

var tx = Input.VR.LeftHand.Transform;

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:19 AM

Oh yeah for sure, I'm converting shit to local using maths instead of functions

garry 07-Aug-21 07:19 AM

you can change it using the transform functions

instead of manually multiplying

liek for the offsets, make a local transform var local = new Transform( new Vector3( -7f, 1f, 2.5f ) ) )

then you can do Input.VR.LeftHand.Transform.ToWorld( local ) (edited)

it'll return a transform with that in the world coords of the left hand

same when converting back to local

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:21 AM

And then I'd need to convert it to local again since the targets use model space

garry 07-Aug-21 07:21 AM

this.Transform.ToLocal( Input.VR.LeftHand )

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:22 AM

But yeah, I did all that math at like 11pm so I just kind of brute forced it instead of thinking about using functions hah

garry 07-Aug-21 07:22 AM

it's frustrating because I made the tried to make the transform stuff so an idiot could use them

I added Trigger and Grip to VrHand

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/44bb835c-4922-42e7-a103-2dcd9ceca09f.png

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:23 AM

Yeah and I'm still in a Unity mindset where every transform has a LocalPosition option on it and all the hands and head are parented to a main room playspace object

garry 07-Aug-21 07:23 AM

for some reason my right controller is showing in the same place as my left controller now, unlkess I open the steam overlay

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:25 AM

So in sbox it's this.Transform.ToLocal( Input.VR.LeftHand.Transform ) and in Unity it'd be LHandTransform.LocalPosition

garry 07-Aug-21 07:26 AM

everything in Unity is a gameobject with a transform though

in s&box a transform is just a struct with a position, rotation and scale

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:26 AM

Exactly, yeah

It's just a different way of thinking that I haven't fully gotten my head around yet

Just like how Rotation is kind of Quaternion but not completely because it has more features than quats do

garry 07-Aug-21 07:27 AM

it's totally a quaternion tho

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:28 AM

And Angles isn't something Unity has since it just uses Vec3 for euler angles

garry 07-Aug-21 07:28 AM

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/769feb05-b317-4021-a508-793bda2e3e6b.png

Angles is pretty much what source1 used everywhere

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:29 AM

But yeah, I mostly know the differences, I just fall back into manually converting shit to local in my brain when I try putting in LocalPosition and it doesn't pop up I guess :p

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:41 AM

Did it like this

https://puu.sh/I291e/73d556e59c.png

I know I'm still multiplying the position offset by the rotation but I figured it's cleaner than making an extra transform for them

Also never sure why people end up using this.Transform instead of just Transform, like, the script knows you're referring to its own transform like 99% of the time right

Some sort of readability thing I don't fully understand I guess?

@MaxLebled is there parameters for specific hand poses? I'm gonna try hooking up some basic stuff

Actually, I guess I can just check

Single float? For holdtype_pose_hand? hmm

Would be cool if we had per finger control but that does add a lot of parameters to deal with

Oh right it also controls both hands at the same time that way

garry 07-Aug-21 07:47 AM

it's tricky

it's really specific to VR, not sure if we should be adding 15 params for fingers on this model

the alternative is to proxy it and set the finger bones manually

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:49 AM

Mhm but then you're setting bones with isn't synched properly right

garry 07-Aug-21 07:49 AM

dunno what that sentence means

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:49 AM

Well you're setting bones on the animator

And that isn't synchronized in multiplayer properly is it

garry 07-Aug-21 07:50 AM

no, but that's not hard to pull off

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:51 AM

Animation graph doesn't seem to let me even use the holdtype stuff without it taking away IK control currently

For VR hold types you'd need separated hand parameters with their own set of poses

Could force that by setting the bones in script but that's a lot of complex poses to figure out with code

Kind of want the ease of setting up hand poses using animation I would think (edited)

garry

it's really specific to VR, not sure if we should be adding 15 params for fingers on this model

MaxLebled 07-Aug-21 07:52 AM

yeah, that was my thought too, adding a toooon of finger parameters just makes me think "there should be a better way"

garry 07-Aug-21 07:53 AM

seems like it'd be easier to bodygroup the hands out and make them an entity each with a special model

MaxLebled 07-Aug-21 07:53 AM

right now the way I have the graph set up should be making it so that each weapon pose's fingers should be being used

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:53 AM

If you only have finger curl parameters you can do a lot in code though

MaxLebled 07-Aug-21 07:53 AM

ohh, that's a very interesting idea garry

garry 07-Aug-21 07:53 AM

modeldoc has built in stuff for hand models

specifically for taking the hand pose from openvr, networking it and applying it directly

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/423166e6-5fae-4958-ba3b-81f9dd377b56.png

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:54 AM

And if the hands are separate entities you can just attach the IK targets to those hands' root bones too, removing all the dumb offset figuring out stuff, or at least moving it to hand transform setting instead of parameters

1

ShadowBrain

Animation graph doesn't seem to let me even use the holdtype stuff without it taking away IK control currently

MaxLebled 07-Aug-21 07:55 AM

so you can only do IK hands while weaponless right now? hm

garry 07-Aug-21 07:55 AM

separate hands makes a lot of sense to me

cuz it'd work potentially with a body and without

MaxLebled

so you can only do IK hands while weaponless right now? hm

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 07:56 AM

Wouldn't be an issue with separated hands since you only set the hands themselves to have weapons, not the terry model

https://puu.sh/I29bS/548ad8eb3d.mp4

Only weirdness that'd occur is the arm holes would detach from the hands if a user has longer arms than terry

But that might be less jarring than having the hands be limited to the arm length

And @MaxLebled could plop a VR controller into Maya and line up the hand model with it himself straight in Maya

That way you can just zero out the rotation/position on the controllers in code and have it be fine

garry 07-Aug-21 08:01 AM

it's never gonna be perfect taking this model and trying to make it work like this, we can just do our best, but we should be pragmatic about what we expect from it

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 08:01 AM

Yeah no obviously, Honestly most games stay away from first person full IK bodies because it'll never be perfect

But as like a quick flat to VR crossplay compatibility thing it's nice

Gamemode specifically you can always tweak it to only show hands and show the IK body in multiplayer only, which is what games like Pavlov do

Pavlov also scales the IK'd body up/down to match the user's height to minimize jankyness but it also means you can make your player massive with some basic height adjustment tools

MaxLebled

so you can only do IK hands while weaponless right now? hm

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 08:05 AM

Thinking about it more, this might become more important depending on if the multiplayer IK body still has hands separated or not, but I guess if we just make it so the hands are always separate entities even in multiplayer it won't pop up as a problem

@garry this isn't returning anything for me, and I did set up bindings to include the trigger value https://puu.sh/I29jo/fb2674fe28.png

Same story with Grip

garry 07-Aug-21 08:14 AM

just 0?

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 08:14 AM

Yup

garry 07-Aug-21 08:15 AM

you're on the index right?

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 08:15 AM

Yup

garry 07-Aug-21 08:16 AM

that's knuckles I guess?

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 08:16 AM

Should be

https://puu.sh/I29no/b08be18fec.png

https://puu.sh/I29ok/5745c453a2.png

Looks like it's definitely finding the controllers, though I guess that's obvious since they're controlling the hand position

garry 07-Aug-21 08:19 AM

I assume the overlay stuff overrides properly but let me commit real bindinds to make sur eit's not that

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 08:21 AM

Yeah so that "replace default binding" button seems to write to the actions.json

And it writes a new json file to the actions folder too

steam_app_590830_binding_knuckles.json

2.59 KB

Generated that shit when I hit it

Pixel³ (Lucy) 07-Aug-21 08:38 AM

Damn I wish I had an index to experience VR

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 08:39 AM

@garry loaded in again, seems to work now??

Maybe it didn't load the bindings properly the first time because I set them up after startup

garry 07-Aug-21 08:39 AM

maybe that update with the bindings

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 08:43 AM

Also somehow both my hands are left hand position

Everything seems to be set up right so maybe you swapped right for left somewhere behind the scenes @garry ?

garry 07-Aug-21 08:52 AM

well that's fucked let me see what I did

weird thing was that when I was in the menu it restored them

must have been when I select the action set

got to be bindings somehow

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 08:59 AM

Hmm bindings look correct though

garry 07-Aug-21 09:00 AM

if you open the steam overlay while in game does your right hand work in game in the background

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 09:01 AM

Huh, yes

IS it mixing up the controller indexes?

garry 07-Aug-21 09:08 AM

I dunno, seemed to fix it when I didn't set the active action set

maybe by setting it to null, 0 it's implied as default

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 09:09 AM

Hmm so are you going to be using other action sets later?

garry 07-Aug-21 09:09 AM

no

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 09:09 AM

Should be fine then

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 09:20 AM

@garry the VR launch option disappeared

https://puu.sh/I29V5/68e97b2af7.png

DEADMONSTOR 07-Aug-21 09:24 AM

haha yeah

Just as I tried to launch it

https://steamdb.info/app/590830/history/

Alex 07-Aug-21 09:25 AM

no more vr!

Daniel 07-Aug-21 09:26 AM

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/825250935001055252/866936309780316170/image0-4.gif

4

garry 07-Aug-21 09:28 AM

just launch with -vr

sick of the popup tbh

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 09:33 AM

Hmm but that also fucks with launching the game in-VR

Like it won't show up on the VR overlay games list

Lotta people (me included) usually launch VR games inside their headsets

I agree the popup can be annoying though

Guess whatttt

The trigger value is returning 0 again

Soooo.... Active action set fucks with the poses, but no active action set fucks with the inputs?

Newly added joysticks also don't do anything

So I guess you'll need to figure out what causes the poses to fuck up, maybe check what the game does when the overlay pops up, since that sends an event I believe @garry

Unless that just de-selects the active action set

garry 07-Aug-21 09:41 AM

where does it save your personal bindings

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 09:41 AM

Hmmm steamVR's workshop folder? I think?

I believe the SteamVR settings file has some references to custom bindings in it too

steamapps\workshop\content\250820

Yeah looks like mine has the personal saved binding in it

For S&Box

garry 07-Aug-21 09:45 AM

I fixed it all, push coming

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 09:45 AM

The SteamVR settings file is in steam's install cfg folder

Nice!

What did it end up being?

garry 07-Aug-21 09:48 AM

I had it hard coded to left, but that didn't seem to matter when the action set wasn't set

these bindings are a pain in the ass

I remember now

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 09:48 AM

garry 07-Aug-21 09:48 AM

to use them you need to set the path in steamworks

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 09:48 AM

Yeah they're pretty annoying to deal with while setting up

garry 07-Aug-21 09:49 AM

and then when you're developing it always uses the steam version, you can't override it

just ignores any local version

which means to add new shit you have to do a big dance

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 09:49 AM

I still have never set the path in steamworks though, so presumably there is some kind of API that the Unity plugin uses to set it to local

garry 07-Aug-21 09:49 AM

it you don't it uses the old overlay in the controller config afaik

garry

I fixed it all, push coming

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 10:02 AM

I guess it's not pushed yet? most recent build doesn't have it working

garry 07-Aug-21 10:04 AM

pushing now

Alex 07-Aug-21 10:45 AM

are joysticks bugged? both of mine appear to use the X value for Y as well

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 10:45 AM

Mine work

Just hooked up rotation for them

Alex 07-Aug-21 10:45 AM

interesting

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 10:45 AM

Though rotating the player apparently has some weird gimbal lock thing going on past 180 or something

https://puu.sh/I2aHr/3a6ef0b03c.mp4

Debug graphics are still way off but it works, sort of

The player's collision box is massive which kind of ruins climbing a bit

Also @garry the trigger and grip deltas return zero

Maybe just not hooked up yet

Value works though

garry

sick of the popup tbh

MaxLebled 07-Aug-21 10:51 AM

steam doesn't show launch pop-ups if you launch from here

walllable 07-Aug-21 10:52 AM

Does s&box still show the "launch with SteamVR" popup if SteamVR isn't installed?

DEADMONSTOR 07-Aug-21 10:53 AM

yes

Didn't even realise I uninstalled it but when I opened it in vr it shouted at me

walllable 07-Aug-21 10:53 AM

Ah

I think it also might not show the popup if you launch via a shortcut in the start menu/desktop

I'm not sure though

garry 07-Aug-21 11:12 AM

https://files.facepunch.com/garry/8d2bbdbe-67d3-4904-93c7-08c7253c2e9e.mp4

2

posted in the wrong channel

I think I need to set my index up to see if this data is useful

I dunno what the right way to do it is

we have these animgraph params, but we also have a bunch of IK stuff, and we also have actual skeleton bones

how much data do these touch controllers give

I tend to remember when I tried Rust VR with helk we had every finger individually, but I dunno of the touch controllers have that data

walllable 07-Aug-21 11:21 AM

@ShadowBrain

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 11:22 AM

What you see there is how much Touch gives

You get the bottom three tied to grip, index finger to trigger

Thumb moves around based on capacitive touch on buttons and joystick

Tracking level 0 is no finger tracking at all, 1 approximative based on capacitive touch, 2 is based on individual finger sensors and 3+ is "full" as in splay and individualfingers

Touch controllers have level 1, so do Vive wands and WMR

Index has 2

No controller has 3 yet

iirc microsoft actually fucked up the tracking level and set it to 2 instead of 1

Which made Climbey assume WMR users had index level finger tracking

Fuckingm y shit up

The fix was unbinding the skeleton because getting microsoft to fix anything is impossible

garry 07-Aug-21 11:27 AM

what about the full hand trackin on oculus

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 11:27 AM

Not supported by SteamVR

garry 07-Aug-21 11:27 AM

ah

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 11:28 AM

You mean the no-controller hand tracking right

garry 07-Aug-21 11:28 AM

yeah

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 11:28 AM

Yeah not supported, though technically possible to do so with level 3 tracking, just no one made the drivers for it yet

garry 07-Aug-21 11:28 AM

this hand has IK, when they pick something up it traces against the object to put the fingers in the right place

50,000 lines of c++

probably about 8 in c#

ShadowBrain 07-Aug-21 11:30 AM

That's an advanced hand

walllable 07-Aug-21 11:30 AM

Neat shit